Leaving the W2 Behind through Rentals and Mortgage Notes

Speaker 0

From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your roadmap to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. 

Speaker 1

Jamie Bateman joins me here today. You can learn what his team is up to and how they can help you by heading over to labrador lending dot com. There's gonna be a clickable link in the show notes. We really appreciate your time here, Jamie. 

Speaker 2

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Jack. This is gonna be fun. 

Speaker 1

So I told you, we probably gotta start with the name. How did that come about? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. Labrador Lending, at the time, I lived on a street called Labrador Lane or a a lane called Labrador Lane. We do have a chocolate lab as well, and my kids were the the the Labradors in their at their elementary school, which I still haven't figured out why we need a mascot for elementary school. But, anyway, that's the Labrador element of of Labrador lending. And we don't actually do a lot of lending, and we'll get into that. But, from the borrower standpoint, we are a lender, and it kinda just flowed and the name stuck. And this is the name we've we've used, and it's out there for branding purposes. Labrador Lending, you know, people know it. Some people know it. Not enough people know it, but that's the name we've gone with, and and here we are. So I do have some other entities, but Labrador Lending is the the forward facing entity. 

Speaker 1

Oh, sure. Well, let's start with your elevator version of how you found your way into real estate. 

Speaker 2

Sure. I, you know, I had without really planning to to go into real estate investing, many years ago, you know, two thousand three through five ish. I worked at a for a a title company, quickly learned how little I knew about title insurance and and, you know, real estate transactions. And in twenty ten, I did, purchase a rental property and but that was very, very passive. It was a condo and, everything went fine with that. But it wasn't until twenty fifteen where I had been working a full time job for many years. I'm sure many of your listeners can relate to this. You know, long commute, wife and kids, you know, doing the getting the paycheck, stable income, and great benefits. And, but something was missing. And I really felt like every day was Groundhog's Day and, just started to really kinda miss, you know, doing working for myself and having a greater purpose and meaning, and that's that's really kinda what was missing. So instead of constantly whining about my commute, which I'm sure I did plenty of, I eventually switched my mindset to, you know, okay, how can this commute help me? How can those in my network help me? How can I help others as well? But instead of pointing to woe is me, you know, this this sucks. This commute is terrible. My job is the same thing every day. You know, leave when it's dark, at home when it's dark, go to sleep, do repeat the next day. Instead of kind of that mindset, I switched to, okay, I could listen to podcasts during my commute. And I started listening to BiggerPockets and many other real estate related podcasts. And I started shifting my mindset, like I said, to, you know, what do I have going for me? What are my strengths? Who's in my network that can that I that I could rely on, that maybe I could start building something, you know, that could outlast this w two. And that wasn't strictly tying my own time and efforts to, financial outcome, you know, as far as hour by hour, so to speak. So, I then, eventually went part time and worked part time, at my w two for seven years and slowly built my real estate business. At that time, it was primarily single family rentals. So I think, you know, there are many ways to to get to, quote, unquote, success. And I have a podcast called From Adversity to Abundance, and we talk about this exact thing of getting to, quote, unquote, abundance. And that can take on many shapes and forms. But in my case, I didn't do the fast, you know, rip off the Band Aid and jump in. I did have the ability to go part time at work and had great benefits, and that allowed me to do the slow transition into real estate investing. And eventually, I'd been out of work for about three months. And once I came back, this was, I think, twenty twenty two, maybe late twenty twenty one, I realized that I I just couldn't do the job anymore. My my heart wasn't in it anymore. And then that first day back, I actually I actually resigned, and and left my w two at that point. So it was a slow transition, but there were many different, you know, inflection points along the way. And, just just quickly, ever since twenty eighteen, I've been much more focused on mortgage note investing, which we can get into. But my real estate investing experience is is largely in the the residential single family space. 

Speaker 1

Yeah. So what what caused you to make that pivot? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. So so leaving the w two? 

Speaker 1

No. Jumping into note investing. 

Speaker 2

Oh, got it. Sorry. So, you know, I I don't wanna say it was just boredom, but I had built up a portfolio of of single family rentals, and those were going well. And I think part of it was the market conditions made it harder and harder to we were doing primarily the BRRR method of which I'm sure you're you and your listeners are familiar with. Some somewhat it was the industry and the the market conditions that drove, that. So real estate prices were going up and up and, property values were going up and, you know, eventually, interest rates went up as well as we know. And so it made it harder, to continue that that model to repeat that. But also, it was a matter of, okay. I kinda have this now. I kinda understand it. I kind of all of our rentals are essentially the same. They're they're single family row homes, townhomes. And so it was working, but I kinda just wanted to pivot a little bit, not not abandon the single family rentals. That's still a major part of my own portfolio. But it was a matter of, okay. I'm ready for a new challenge, and I want to add some knowledge to my you know, another tool to my tool belt. And, yeah, and it's all kind of part of the same cycle. That is how that's how I see it. It's, and now I kind of have a more complete view of the the residential real estate investing, cycle, if you will. So didn't, I didn't jump right into that either. I took my time in learning it and, through we we can get into that. But, and then twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, I really started to scale the mortgage note side of things. So, I I didn't abandon the rentals and just switch over, but I I kind of was ready to add some a a new tool to my repertoire. 

Speaker 1

Well, you've given us two examples here now where you kind of transitioned, what some people would see as slowly and cautiously. Is that something you picked up from your military background, or what was brought from your military back background into your real estate investing? That's a 

Speaker 2

great question. I mean, that's a that's a broad broad one too. We could we could spend a lot of time on that. I I, you know, I do think there's an element of we we have people on either end of the spectrum, some people who tend to overanalyze and don't take action. And then on the other end, it's like somebody who jumps in and isn't prepared, doesn't doesn't take the time to learn things. I don't know. I I would say it's probably more of a personality driven thing, as in my case. As far as what I learned from the military, it was quite a bit. I joined the military because I was used to being a part of part of a team. I I was involved in college athletics and played lacrosse in college and just loved being a part of something bigger than myself. And so I kinda felt that void once I got into the the, quote, unquote, real world. And so I joined the military to serve, you know, serve a a a greater mission, if you will. I did go through federal officer candidate school. I was an officer. And so I guess I would say a lot of the traits that have, transferred over from my military experience tend to relate to leadership and teamwork and, certainly attention to detail, planning. There's a lot of planning at the higher levels of the military in the leadership positions for sure. And, but attention to detail and, and and following through, doing what you say you're gonna do, being where you say you're gonna be at whatever time you said you'd be there, that kind of thing. I think that helps you stand out in the in the real world for sure. 

Speaker 1

Mhmm. Yeah. And there seems to be, an ongoing thing, regarding I I've even seen some TikTokers suggest that they are time blind or something, like, as some sort of excuse. I I don't I don't get it myself, but I kinda understand what you're saying. But, that may be just my generation. Like, you know, we it just so 

Speaker 2

Yeah. 

Speaker 1

I know. I'm good. Could we go back to the the beginning? Like, do you recall your first real estate acquisition and, like, the biggest lesson learned there? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, the the true the first one that was really this condo that we purchased, and, you know, I'll I'll be honest, we kinda got lucky because I just posted, you know, the the we we purchased the deal in the MLS. My father was the realtor. That was another thing I'd what he my father had been a real estate agent for many years. My brother was a loan officer, so I started to say, wait. I've got people who know things. And I worked at a title company. I'd worked at a mortgage broker as well. And, you know, so we found the deal through my father on the MLS. It was a condo. It was less you know, there are some risks with condos, but, you know, it's a little bit more passive generally because you're not dealing with the exterior of the of the property typically. And, put an ad on Craigslist for a tenant, and, honestly, we've had the same tenant in there since, twenty ten. And he's paid every time, if not ahead of, schedule. So got a little lucky on that one. But once, fast forward to twenty fifteen, that's when I really was kind of treating real estate starting to treat it more like a business, real estate investing, more like a business, something a little more active. And, those first few deals, we did find on the MLS as well. And, you know, I think one of the lessons is that if you you can overpay a little bit. You can make some mistakes. But if you are in this for the long term, real estate is a long long term game. It's not a get rich quick thing. It's certainly not real estate investing. You can make money in real estate quickly, but, I was approaching this, you know, as a long term investment. And so I think the lesson I would say that we I learned from from those early days is that you can make some mistakes, and it's okay. And but if you do make a couple mistakes here and there, real estate investing is very forgiving in the long term. And so if you don't make terrible mistakes, you know, but and and there's always gonna be risk. There's always gonna be a reason not to get in. These are some bonus tips, I guess, bonus lessons. There are always, reasons you should not take action. But so those are not gonna go away one hundred percent. But you've gotta be somewhat prepared and feel comfortable enough, but push yourself out of your comfort zone a little bit and go ahead and take some action and realize, you know, even if this doesn't go exactly how I thought it was gonna go, real estate is typically very forgiving in the long run. 

Speaker 1

In your you mentioned that at at a certain point, your w two job just wasn't like you couldn't do it anymore. 

Speaker 2

Mhmm. 

Speaker 1

Was there ever a point where you found that the situation when it came to your real estate? 

Speaker 2

As far as not wanting to do the real estate anymore? 

Speaker 1

Yeah. 

Speaker 2

It's a great question. There have been times where it's it's it's just been a lot. And, you know, that's yeah. I'll just jump into one of the lessons I've learned through all of this real estate investing, which includes mortgage note investing. I also started a loan servicing company, did that for three years with, some partners. And, there were times a couple years ago where it was just overwhelming and it was just too much. That wasn't the fault of real estate investing. That was my fault for taking on too much and not saying no. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to this where, you know, they just they're doing some things pretty well, then they add too many things to their plate, and then they start doing everything average at best. So there were definitely times where I wanted to, you know, quit, I guess. I but I would say, just quickly on this point, I think this is a key point. One of the lessons that I learned from all this is that I I actually tend to be a little bit too stubborn sometimes and, not, you know, not willing to quit. And so I was never really ready to quit real estate entirely, but I should have quit, for example, the loan servicing company, that venture. That's a whole, you know, whole big story there. I should have quit that before I did. You know, granted, it I have the, we've got hindsight now to look to use, and so I don't I try not to beat myself up too much for that. But at at the end of the day, I did lose a good bit of money in that, but I I and I've got some scars to to prove it. In in the end, I probably should have quit that earlier. So I would say, you know, just not taking on too many different projects at the same time and just staying focused is something I I should have done a better job of. But I was never really ready to just quit real estate investing entirely. 

Speaker 1

Yeah. It's one of those things. It's kind of a double edged sword, isn't it? Where we're always told that we we could be just moments away from gold. You know? Stop don't stop digging. 

Speaker 2

That's true. 

Speaker 1

But there is a point where we need to just take a breath and, like, let be real real with ourselves too. 

Speaker 2

It's so true. There are so many, you know, idioms and sayings like that where it's like it it it typically would apply, but in some cases, maybe not. And so, there's a lot of there's a lot of nuance, You know? As I've gotten more gray hair, I've I've learned to see more gray in the world. I've never used that one on a podcast, but I kinda liked it. But, so, you know, the it's not a one size fits all. There's not a, you know, there's not a straight line to success. There there are many different paths to success. And I do think, generally speaking, maybe for your younger listeners, that I would not try to start a bunch of things all at the same time and then never quit. You know? I I would start, you know, picking picking a niche and focus on it and try that for a while and see how it goes. If you've learned it well and you can continue that in a more passive way and then add on to that, then great. But don't try to do everything all at once. And, yeah, there's there's art to this for sure. There's there's a gut feel part of this. I I don't really like to say, like, oh, you start a you start a business and if it's not positive, you know, if it's not cash flow positive in the first two months, then scrap it. Well, it's like there's a lot more nuance to that and what type of industry are we talking about. And so, you know, there's art and science to it and but I think something you touched on is really key, which is I didn't allow myself the space to really step back and look at these things, you know, as a from a a higher level, you know, from a, kind of zoom out, you know, zoomed out perspective. I was so in the weeds that I wasn't making great strategic decisions even though I may have been making decent day to day decisions, if that makes sense. 

Speaker 1

Well, it's really hard to make that shift. When you're dealing with something that's rife with emotion, that's typically where we're making our decisions. It's it's actually hard to kind of take a second and step out of that moment. Yeah. To be more strategic. Yeah. 

Speaker 2

Absolutely. And sometimes life throws things at you, and then you you're kind of almost forced to have some more space, but that can be a blessing in disguise too. So, yeah, I I, I I've in the last year, one to two years, I've really cut out a lot of things that weren't working and things I I that were taken away from, you know, where my focus should have been. And this is not to say I did a terrible job with everything I was working on. I I think I did a decent job, but at one point, I was running two mortgage note funds. I was running a loan servicing company. I also still had my rentals. I've got a podcast. I put out a book at the same time. I'm not saying any of this to brag. I'm saying this was not smart. And, I no longer I I I was also doing mentorship for people, with note note investing. So I cut that way down. I only have more one mortgage note fund. I do not have the loan servicing company. I, the book is out. There's no more work with that. I do have the podcast still, but I've cut a lot of things out and my focus I just feel like I have a lot more space to focus on things and put, you know, real my energy where it should be. And now we've reached a point where we're starting to kind of scale back up slowly. We've added some pieces such as asset management for others, and more to our mentorship program that are very, very related to the core, you know, focus anyway. It's not some something that's way up in left field. And so I I feel like I'm ready to to strategically continue to scale. 

Speaker 1

You know, and and you to jump back into more metaphors, I guess, I I'm just gonna do one more. You're kind of demonstrated there that there's a lot of proof around the concept of you're changing chasing multiple rabbits, you're not gonna catch one. 

Speaker 2

That's that's a I I love it. Absolutely. 

Speaker 1

Yeah. So, just to remind everybody, we are talking to Jamie over at labrador lending dot com. That's gonna be a clickable link in the show notes. And if you found some value in what we're talking about so far, a like and subscribe on that YouTube video is going to go a long way. So really appreciate you spending the time with us. So let's jump into the note lending, Gene. Yeah. Like, could you kinda give us a high level overview of of how what your business does and how it does it? 

Speaker 2

Absolutely. I I do think I've gotten better at at, giving that high level overview. It can be easy to jump right into the weeds. What we do is we are I'm a mortgage note investor. So just to keep it simple, I buy the debt, and that may be, for, nonperforming notes or performing notes. And so the core of what we do is we buy first lien mortgage notes, and we don't actually originate the the loans even though my company name is Labrador Lending. We don't actually technically lend in most cases. We will buy existing debt. So we become the bank. We become the lender who's already, you know, when a loan has already existed. And in almost all cases, those are first lien mortgage notes for us. We do dabble in land notes and some commercial notes. And but our my focus really is first lien and also some seconds, but my my focus is first lien mortgage notes. So if a borrower, you know, in their home, has fallen behind and that note becomes delinquent, many times the banks or hedge funds or, you know, other lenders, other note investors wanna get rid of that that sort of toxic paper, the defaulted debt, and they will sell those loans off. There were many, many of these, you know, after the two thousand eight crash, and there are not as many now. And so that those are kind of the defaulted notes, and we can buy those at maybe sixty to seventy percent of the total payoff, the total legal balance of what's owed. And so if we buy that debt, our goal is to work something out with the homeowner, the borrower, in most cases. That's not but that's not always possible. And sometimes we do foreclose or, work out a deed in lieu. But in a in an ideal world, we can do a loan modification, and that helps both the borrower and us as the, quote, unquote, lender or investor. So we're not buying the real property. We're not buying the the actual single family home in this case. We're buying the debt, and then sometimes we do end up with the real property. The real property is still very important to us. This is definitely still real estate investing in my opinion. It's kind of a a mix between finance and real estate investing. And but but that real property, that single family home is our collateral. And so that's when compared to many other types of investing, that's one of the big perks of of mortgage note investing is we have collateral. So if we're buying that this note at fifty percent of the collateral value, the property value, again, we're not buying the property, but we're buying the note, that puts us in a pretty safe position if we've done our due diligence well. So, you know, we we have that as a fallback, to get to make sure we're made whole. 

Speaker 1

This is especially an interesting strategy here because, like, you you're in kind of a unique position. Most large banks, I would imagine, they're not in the real estate business. So they That's right. In the end, they're they just it's just a number on their balance sheet. You're you're kind of solving a problem for them. And in many cases, solving a problem for the the current resident. 

Speaker 2

Right. For the the borrower, the homeowner, as well as the bank in many cases. Now to be clear, I don't walk into a Bank of America branch and say, show me all your defaulted assets. And, it trickles down, and and we we buy from other note investors or smaller smaller hedge funds or larger note funds than mine. But absolutely. And one of the key things about banks, people people wonder, like, why would they sell at a discount? You know, banks do what's called fractional reserve lending, and they can lend so much money based on how much, if they have too much defaulted paper on their books, that limits the amount of money that they can lend. And what's what's crazy is they can lend money they don't actually have. And so they they can kind of create almost like the federal government creating money out of thin air. But, if they have too much, and, nonperforming loans, too many nonperforming loans or too many defaulted loans on their books, it it really hurts their capacity or their their ability to lend to other borrowers. And that's really where they make a lot of money is is lending. 

Speaker 1

I was gonna ask you how you find these notes, but you kinda answered that already. Do you have, like, options to do that? What level of vetting are you able to do? Is it per property? Does this come as, like, a batch of of properties? Do you have to buy bundles? 

Speaker 2

Great. How does 

Speaker 1

that all work? 

Speaker 2

Typically, we are able to buy loan level at the place loan level bids. Oftentimes, the sales or trades will come out as a but it's just an old term called a tape, but it's just an Excel spreadsheet or some type of spreadsheet. But that many times does not mean that you need to buy the whole pool or the whole offering. So, this is where it gets it does get a little complicated and dicey as far as, you know, where do we buy notes. This is everybody wants to know this this question, the the answer to this question. They already know the question. But the the, the truth is it's still as as real estate is, it's a relationship space, and we build relationships with other investors, other note sellers, hedge funds, banks, you know, anybody who is in this space. And there's also a large seller financing component to this as well. So it's not always banks. You have institutional paper, and then you have seller finance paper. Seller financing is much smaller as far as the in the grand scheme of things, but it's still a large component of, notes that are out there to buy. So to directly answer your question, I mean, I have a list of sources that we go to to buy notes. The reality is we end up going to the same sources over and over and over in many cases because those sellers know that we will perform, we will do what we say we're gonna do from the military there, and we will buy you know, when we say we're gonna buy something, we will as long as the due diligence checks out. So we kind of have our tried and true sources, but we are always trying to expand that. We also have on our I I've got a lot of free resources on our website, labrador lending dot com. One of those free resources is, I think it's called AI and note investing, finding sources in twenty twenty five and beyond. We're trying to use I am using AI quite a bit in general in our processes in my my business, but, we're trying to incorporate it more into finding note sellers as well. Because to be frank with you, it's been harder and harder to find deals, since I got into this space. But if you there there are still plenty out there. So, there are online exchanges like paperstack dot com people can check out. There are some other online exchanges. It's almost like eBay for for mortgage notes. But the reality is it's a very inefficient space, and you're gonna have your most success success by building relationships, going to conferences, you know, doing podcasts, doing Zoom calls with people, and and reaching out and saying, hey. This is what we're looking for, and this is why when I work with mortgage, when I work with mentees, when I mentor new mortgage note investors, one of the first things we do, if not the first thing we do, is to build their buy box. And that just, like, is it clearly lays out what they're looking for. And, specifically, are you looking for first lien mortgage note, second lien mortgage notes, land notes? Will you buy mobile home notes? You know, many different variety. What states are you gonna buy in? That's a huge, huge piece that's overlooked often. And so we'll build that buy box, and it that's really for two reasons. One is so that the note buyer, the person I'm mentoring, understands what they're looking for. Because if you don't know what you're looking for, you're likely not going to get it. And then two, it there's a a maybe a dumbed down or simplified version of the buy box that we have our our mentees, you know, provide to potential note sellers. And this says, hey. This is what I'm looking for. If you ever have anything like this, send it my way. And so believe it or not, that that works. So, that's it does take work. And so this is where, you know, people think, oh, mailbox money, I wanna be a note investor and just, you know, put my shoes, my my feet up on the desk, and and I'm gonna print money. Well, I don't know. You you can do it. You can you can be a passive mortgage note investor. We have a a fund called the Integrity Income Fund. That's for passive accredited investors. But it for the most part, this is not a passive thing. You need to be ready to work. And one of those things you need to work on is building out your sources of note sellers or sources of notes, your list of note sellers. 

Speaker 1

You, get these notes, and then, you're probably having to reach out to the seller or, I mean, to the resident. Is is it sometimes difficult to get a hold of them? Because I'm sure they're inundated with back pay on not only their mortgage, but other things. There's likely something pretty 

Speaker 2

Right. It's true. Now we do buy performing notes as well where the borrowers are paying, or maybe they had a hiccup in the past and that's been worked out. So in a lot of cases, the notes we buy, there's really no issue there. But we use in almost all cases, we used a licensed third party loan servicer and that's the type of company that I had that I have experience with. We've used I've used probably six different servicers over the years. And that for the for those unfamiliar with the mortgage note investing space, think of a a loan servicer as a property manager. Now a loans the loan servicing industry comes with many more hurdles from a licensing standpoint because it is a financial institution, so there's a lot more regulation, mostly state level regulation. So it's not like a property manager in that sense where, you know, in many cases, you can just become a property manager without a license depending on the state. There's a lot more red tape. But the point is that the a loan servicer's job is to collect payments from the borrower and disperse those funds to the lender or investor. Also, their their job is to keep everyone compliant and keep me compliant, really, so that we're sending out the proper notices, you know, CFPB, Dodd Frank notices, any any any required notices. And then, it really legitimizes the note itself. And so when it when a licensed third party loan servicer is keeping track of the payments, If this ever has to go to court in front of a judge and it this this maybe the foreclosure is contested, I can say this this loan servicer has, you know, has they could that's their job. They keep records. I I am not somebody who's been driving out to the borrower's house knocking on their door threatening, you know, to to take their home or something. This is all done through a licensed third party servicer. We also use attorneys and other vendors. I have spoken with borrowers, but in general, it's not something that I really like to be involved with. And quite honestly, the reason is I'll probably get sucked into many of their stories, and we all have stories and hardship, and, I do have discretion, and I do have a heart. And so I can, you know, listen to a borrower's, you know, situation, understand their situation. And we've deferred payments before. We've done loan modifications before. But at the end of the day, if the borrower is not communicative, we're not able we have no no choice but to pursue foreclosure. 

Speaker 1

Mhmm. And then when you have the property in your possession, what do you do? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. So in most cases, we do a light rehab. We'll cut the grass, do some, you know, the biggest expense is the trash out. I've paid probably fourteen thousand dollars for a trash out before and and many from zero to fourteen. But, oftentimes, we're just doing a trash out and a light rehab. I have done a full rehab from a distance. You can check out on our website. There's a case study I have where I turn one of my rentals that I still have, it was a nonperforming note in Jacksonville, Florida that we took over and we rehabbed. I've never been to Jacksonville, Florida, and this is one of the perks of mortgage note investing. You really don't need to go to these properties. It's not like hard money lending where you really need to have a a crew where you're gonna rehab the property and that kind of thing. To answer your question, I do a light rehab, and then we'll oftentimes sell to a real estate investor like a flipper, or if it's in good good enough condition, put it on the on the market. 

Speaker 1

Sure. I would imagine, some people are wondering, like, this sounds like you know, when you hear the words note investing, you probably have to have, quite a few quite a bit of resources in your pocket in order to get involved in this. Would you say that's a myth? 

Speaker 2

I would say you there's a low bar a low barrier to entry, but, there there almost shouldn't be. So, what I what I mean by that is it's it's very easy to become a note investor. Now whether you should or not, you know, without working with a mentor, without making sure you have resources, especially people that you know in the industry, I don't I don't think, you know, that's a good idea to just jump in. So can you legally do it? Yes. Should you do it right away without learning, without developing a network, without having some of your own money to put to work? No. 

Speaker 1

Well, you know, you going back to the, loan, servicing companies Mhmm. That particularly is something that I would I would point to. We we attempted to do a couple things of our own and, went through a couple different loan servicing providers. And and, man, it is it is something you definitely need to know what you're doing and what questions to ask to make sure that they know what they're doing. 

Speaker 2

There are some good ones out there, and then there are others. And it's there's not a it's it's a tough industry. There's not a lot of margin as a loan servicer. And, you know, you are a debt collector at the end of the day, so you have people, you know, on the phones contacting borrowers trying to ask them for money. It's not really a fun job, so to speak. Right? And so and there's a lot of regulation, like I said, and, you know, just a lot of reporting requirements. It's a difficult industry. The reason we have loan servicers is because most big banks, they have their own servicing arm that they can they can essentially they they've brought it in house. They don't need a third party loan servicer. But, you know, a smaller note investor, smaller lender, you typically want a a third party loan servicer. For hard money lending, it's not necessarily required for a commercial note. You know, you don't necessarily need to follow all the the same regulations. But in most cases, I still would use one. 

Speaker 1

Well, Jamie, this has been a fantastic conversation. I just wanna direct everybody again to labrador lending dot com to learn more there. Take a take a special look and subscribe to the podcast there if you're interested in learning more about this. Before we jump into the rapid fire and close out this episode, is there anything else we should hit on? 

Speaker 2

You know, I'll just say that we do serve both the active and passive investor. So the active mortgage note investor, if you wanna learn to scale your business a little bit, we have a mentorship program, and then we serve the passive investor through our mortgage note fund, the Integrity Income Fund. And I'm happy we have a ton of free resources on our website that I have not gone through. We haven't had time to address each one of those, but I'm happy to help people. You know, feel free to reach out. Bateman james at labrador lending dot com. 

Speaker 1

Well, if you're ready, Jamie, we'll jump into the rapid fire and close this episode. 

Speaker 2

Let's do it, Jack. 

Speaker 1

What lie do real estate investors often tell themselves? 

Speaker 2

I think that it's gonna be passive. You know, I I I've done presentations on, you know, mortgage note investing and whether it's actually passive or not. There are definitely ways to be passive in real estate investing. I'm not saying they're not, but in many cases, it just takes a lot more work than than what you think when you're, you know, young and new. So I think we tell ourselves that it's gonna be easier than it than it actually ends up being. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but just know that there's probably gonna be some work involved, especially in the beginning. 

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think that's becoming more and more prevalent as people continue to look for shortcuts. Mhmm. 

Speaker 2

Exactly. 

Speaker 1

They just want the easy way. Yep. If you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be? 

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean, I would say pick one niche and stick with it for a while. And then secondly, it's okay to it's okay to quit something. If you've tried something and and you've tried it for three plus years, for example, it's okay to say this isn't this isn't working. I can scrap this, and I've learned a ton. Let's start over or start something new or just refocus. It's okay to quit. 

Speaker 1

Do you have a book recommendation, or what are you reading right now? 

Speaker 2

So I do have, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my own book. It's From Adversity to Abundance. People can check that out on Amazon. This is not a real estate book. It's a little bit I'm, like, I know you've had over six hundred episodes. I wonder if anybody has ever mentioned it. But, it's called The Way of the Superior Man. It's not at all a real estate book. It's it's, it is mostly for men, but I do think women may find it enlightening or educational. But, yeah. It's, there it is. 

Speaker 1

The Way of the Superior Man. Yeah. No. You haven't hit you'll be the first one on that one. 

Speaker 2

I've, I'm I'm reading it again. It was it was really good. Each chapter is kind of almost a separate, you know, separate little mini book, so you don't have to read it front to back. And it's, I don't know. It really brings together kind of the east and the west and, sort of our traditional knowledge, the traditional knowledge with more more of, like, the the science, I guess. So, you know, I I've really found it inspirational and and just rings true. 

Speaker 1

And finally, what process or tool have you implemented that has had the biggest time saving impact? 

Speaker 2

I would say, using a high quality third party bookkeeping company. At one point, I think I had seven seven LLCs and, you know, a lot going on, and it was just so much to keep track of. I did have a bookkeeper at that time, but I would say hiring a a a quality third party bookkeeping company has been just a game changer for you. I for me, I use I don't know if it has been for you, Jack, but I use Haven Financial Services. Feel if anybody wants to get connected with them, reach out to me. But I I I just don't spend a lot of time on the books anymore. And every month, it used to be this super stressful thing where I was even though I had a bookkeeper, I had to answer all these, like, little questions about all all these little transactions. And it's like, this team knows what they're doing. Yes. We still have some reconciling to do. We still have some questions each month, but I get a report with everything rolled up into one PDF for my entities at the end of the month. And I can see profit year to date, profit from the last month, sometimes losses, you know, but it's and it makes it easier for my CPA, so that bill goes down as well. So I would say using a third party bookkeeping company that uses software and a and a great team has been a game changer for me. 

Speaker 1

Well, one last time, it is labrador lending dot com. Really appreciate your time, Jamie. This was great to meet you, and I hope you'll consider coming back again sometime soon. 

Speaker 2

I'd love to, Jack. That that would be awesome. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm hoping I added some value to your your listeners. Oh, 

Speaker 1

absolutely did. 

Speaker 0

Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.