Life’s Inflection Points and Real Estate Freedom: Whitney Elkins-Hutten on Resilience, Career Shifts, and Redefining Wealth

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Today, we speak with Whitney Elkins Hutton. Whitney is a real estate investor, and who is committed to empowering busy professionals, turning their dreams into reality with savvy wealth building strategies. She is the director of investor education at passive investing dot com, and she's the founder of ash wealth dot com. She works with both passive and active real estate investors. She tells her story about how she was, we we we go through several different inflection points in her in her career and her personal life. She was an extremely busy professional who started a side hustle in the single family residential real estate space as an investor. She and her husband built up a portfolio of about forty rental properties after doing fix and flip, investing for a while. Well, fix and flip, the the fix and flip strategy because I actually don't think it's investing. But then she pivoted in several ways. She became she walks through how certain family members' deaths and medical, really, medical challenges led her to move from a being a solo entrepreneur to a business owner. She she was heavily involved in this, real estate investing business as an entrepreneur, and then she had to take three months off. And you'll have to tune in to to find out why. But she really had to take a step back to deal with family challenges that many of us end up facing in real life. And, you know, also, at that point, started to look more towards commercial investing. So now she's much more focused on multifamily investing and car washes and also debt funds. And we talk about our mortgage note fund, the Integrity Income Fund, and we talk about other debt funds like fix and flip funds. So this episode is great for, any moms out there who wanna be entrepreneurs, who are entrepreneurs, or moms who are real estate investors, anyone who's a passive investor, anyone who wants to be an active investor, anyone who's considering a career change, anyone who, is considering different asset classes in real estate investing. We cover a lot of ground in this one. This was a fantastic conversation, and I know you're gonna love it. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us Whitney Elkins Hutton. Whitney, how are you doing today? 

 

Speaker 1

 

I'm doing great. It's a Friday. The sun's shining. 

 

Speaker 0

 

That's it. One 

 

Speaker 1

 

of my one of 

 

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my friends always says, the sun is shining. The birds are chirping. What else could you want? You know? Exactly. For the for the listener out there, Whitney is the director of investor education at passive investing dot com. She's a real estate investor, and, we're we're gonna get into some of the trials and tribulations and successes that she's had. Whitney, before we jump back into your backstory, tell the listener, who are you, what are you up to today, and what are what is some of the abundance that you're experiencing today? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. Well, I'm currently the director of investor education here at passive investing dot com. I also do one on one coaching at ash wealth dot com, centered around the financial premise of my book, money for tomorrow, how to build and protect generational wealth. We gotta learn how to do both. Anyways, the the all that really stems from, you know, my journey in investing and primarily real estate investing over the past, you know, twenty four years. And my first investment, you know, I kicked off in two thousand two, and, I'm sure we'll dive into all of that story. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Absolutely. So what is before we jump back, what what does your, you know, what does your life look like on a personal level today? What what do you have a lot of control of your schedule? Do you have financial abundance? What is what is some of the what are some of the perks that, you know, real estate investing have has allowed for you? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So, I have financial freedom. I, I have time choice and location independence in my life, and that's been hard fought over the past few years. So Yeah. It's really been about engineering choices, choosing to kinda step into the unknown Mhmm. And really create and fight for what it is that I want my life to look like. And sometimes testing out theories and, you know, sometimes you think you wanna travel twenty four seven from the road Mhmm. With your husband and kid, and you're like, wait a second. No. I don't. Terrible. Right. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Absolutely. No. And and, absolutely, we'd we'd like to keep it real on this show, and we don't it's one of the things I've heard, you know, that people like about the show is that we don't pretend it's all rainbows and unicorns and butterflies. But at the same time, real estate investing or other types of investing and taking ownership of your life. You use the word engineering, and that's I mean, I think that's a something that could easily be glossed over. But that's a critical piece is being intentional about the kind of life you want, not that you can control everything, of course, but you can be intentional about what how you want your life to look in five, ten, twenty years. And, so the fact that you have financial freedom and control of your your schedule, and and in in, location independence, I mean, so many people out there would love to have just one of those. So, that's that's phenomenal. I know you're gonna walk us through how you're able to get there, which was not easy for sure. So two thousand two set the stage for us your first investment, I believe. What what did things look like for you? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Well, I, bought a house with a significant other. We thought we did things a little out of order. We thought, you know, get a house and then figure out the rest of, you know, what our future would hold as a couple and partner with a realtor. The realtor gave us a book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, which I read the first couple chapters, and I said, oh, this is cool. Skim the rest. And I'm I'm like, I'm ready to buy a house. I did a lot of things well, missed a few keys along the way, especially with the second house that I purchased. But with this first project, bought the house. It was a rehab, and I was bringing the money. I was the money partner. I'm the one with the stable job Mhmm. Who was working in public health at the time. Mind you, this is right after nine eleven. So, I mean, I'm in my heyday where I'm, you know, working through, you know, training doctors and public health nurses how to identify anthrax and smallpox and, you know, I'm loving I'm love I think, you know, I'm loving life, but it has me on the road eighty plus hours a week. We buy this house. Relationship falls apart about a month later. 

 

Speaker 0

 

And just to be clear that the intention of the house sorry to cut you off, but it was it was to live fix up and live in? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Fix up and live in it, and build up some equity. So we had choices on Right. We wanna keep that house rented, or do we wanna trade up for a larger house? 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And, quickly realized after a month of living together in these type of conditions, we were just completely two different personalities and, parted ways, fairly amicably, but I had the house because I fronted all of the money on the house. Yeah. But I realized I didn't have the skills to complete the rehab. And it had green shag carpet, psychedelic daisies painted all over the walls. 

 

Speaker 0

 

You wanted to change that? Okay. 

 

Speaker 1

 

No. Yeah. Right. I wasn't living in the nineteen sixties anymore. Well, if 

 

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you just wait a few decades, maybe come back around. But 

 

Speaker 1

 

It will. Yeah. That's so true. But, I really got scrappy. I bought the Home Depot one two three book 

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And, started teaching myself. You know, my dad reminded me at that time. He was like, you know how to do things. Like, I taught you how to use power tools. You can do a lot of stuff. Yeah. It was just really scary. It's one thing to put together a table. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Right. Thing to take down a wall. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Right. Right. Absolutely. But I think and I don't wanna gloss over that point. And and I've talked on prior episodes enough, so I won't go into it about my own story and that bit of it, but just the mindset shift that it sounds like he helped you your dad helped you work through. Is it just starting to point to strengths that you have and and things that you have accomplished and skill sets that you do have? Was that the start of a mindset shift there? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. I a a little bit. I mean, I I think he he, you know, he was in failing health at that point in time, which kind of feeds into the the the journey piece of this. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And so, you know, normally, you know, in prior years, if I hit a challenge like that, you know, my parents would be like, They work along with me. Sure. They would help me figure out help me build the skills. Well, you know, he's in the hospital now, and he can't do that. But, you know, you know, he really which was painful for him. Sure. He wants to help his baby girl. And, anyways, long story short, he was just like, what can I do? And he just, like, go to Home Depot, which is his favorite store. He lived in Home Depot if he could. 

 

Speaker 0

 

That's funny. 

 

Speaker 1

 

He was like, they have free classes. They'll teach you how to do drywall. They'll teach you how to surface floors. They'll teach you how to lay tile. And I'm like, okay. So I'm like, like, I have the time to do that. But I stuffed that property full of roommates, people that didn't mind living in a construction zone, that didn't mind helping out for beer, pizza, sushi. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And, rehab that property. And 

 

Speaker 0

 

Nice. 

 

Speaker 1

 

I thought I had to get rid of that property. I sold it eleven months later. 

 

Speaker 0

 

1.  

 

Speaker 1

 

Got it all, you know, beautified, sold it. Yeah. And then that's really where it clicked for me. That's so we talked about the mindset piece. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

It's when I'm preparing my taxes post closing Yeah. I was like, wait a second. Okay. Not only did I walk away with a fifty two k check Mhmm. I also didn't pay for any of my housing expenses during that time because my roommates had been covering them. That's Right. Right. And then I actually my grandfather helped me with the down payment. Now this is the wild, wild west of lending. I mean, I was refinanced on the properties. 

 

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Right. Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And I would suggest that to anybody. But 

 

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If you could fog a mirror, you could get a loan. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Exactly. Yeah. I had a, yeah, a heartbeat. That was about 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

When they told me how much money they could give me on the property, I was like, wait a second. That's more than the properties work. And they were like, yeah. I'm like, that doesn't seem right. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

But I'll take it. Yeah. So, anyways, that that's really where it started clicking. Also, it was tax free because of the one twenty one exclusion. Okay. I could utilize that. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. What is what is that for the listener? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So I think a lot of people in real estate are aware of the ten thirty one exchange. Meaning, if they live in a property as their primary, well, as an or if they have an investment property and they hold on to it, and they decide to sell it, after a year, they can trade it up for a similar size or a larger property and keep the gains of it tax free. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And avoid depreciation recapture. Well, in this case, it's my primary residence. Mhmm. But they had the one twenty one exclusion is kinda like the ten thirty one exchange. Mhmm. As long as I lived in the property for two years 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

I could keep that money tax rate. Now somebody is smart in doing math and going, Whitney, you said eleven months. Right. There are exceptions to be able to reduce that. Say you have to move for a job or something like that. Like, there 

 

Speaker 0

 

hardship or something like that. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yes. And it's a sliding scale. So Gotcha. Closer I got to that two years, there's a whole math equation. So equation. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Two years is not a hard and fast rule. Two years would be better, but eleven months is still good. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Exactly. K. Now get that's two thousand two, two thousand three, four. Like Yeah. I'm in check the tax code. Right. Right. Right. But that that's where I was like, wait a second. Here, I made a. Yeah. That is not attached to my identity or my degree that I did on the nights and weekends that paid me more than when I was earning at my day job that had me traveling eight hours a week. Oh, by the way, remember, my dad's in the hospital. He's you know, he eventually goes into hospice. Mhmm. That job is not allowing me to go back and be with my father Right. While he's on hospice. I mean, two days, two weeks, two months, two years, I didn't know how much time I had with him. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And so that's where I was like, oh, I need a way better side hustle here that would allow me flexibility. That's really it was after. I didn't Yeah. The word financial freedom and cash flow, they just were Yeah. Not even in my purview, but just flexibility. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Flexibility and control, right, of your schedule a little bit. Yeah. That's okay. So alright. So fast forward. What did the second property look like, and how did things turn out from there? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Well, second property, didn't go nearly as smoothly. Sure. I'll drop a little nugget. We can come back to it later. When I sold the property, you know, right now, we're in the middle of two thousand six and seven. Not a good time for that. And a bus falls into the roof of the property. It was I'm sorry. 

 

Speaker 0

 

What'd you say? 

 

Speaker 1

 

A bus 

 

Speaker 0

 

Woah. Okay. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Rolls down from my neighbor's property into the roof of the property one day after closing. So it was a total, you know, hot show. 

 

Speaker 0

 

I did hear you clearly. I just had to make sure. Exactly. 

 

Speaker 1

 

But so first property goes really well. Second property, I actually make money because of the taxes tax savings on the property, but it that was getting out by the skin of my teeth legally and financially. But now I've kinda figured out what I violated, what went well in the second first property that didn't go well in the second property. Right. Location, location, location. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. Sure. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So I could do several more fix and flips, my by myself, also with my husband, and we're living in them, you know, building up equity, but now we don't have any cash flow. Mhmm. Like, I can't pay the grocery bill. I can't see how I can retire off of this or step away from 

 

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a job. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Because we kinda just Right. 

 

Speaker 0

 

It's potential lump sums in the future. Right? But but not not nothing reliable on a month to month basis. 

 

Speaker 1

 

We wanted to start a family, and that that wasn't gonna get us there. So Yeah. I kinda you know, we continue to do the live and flip because we see the potential there. Yeah. But we're trying to figure out how to get the cash flow. So, eventually, I figure out, wait a second. Let's put a tenant into one of these fixed up flips and make it a rental. And, like Yeah. The lights come on. Yay. That hey. We have cash flow. But I even know how to calculate cash flow at this point in time. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So we had a whole learning curve there. Once we kind of figured out these puzzle pieces with help of other people, coaches, mentors Yeah. People in our circle, we decide to surround ourselves with people that were knowledgeable in real estate. 

 

Speaker 0

 

That's a really key point there. Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Exactly. I mean, I'm an epidemiologist. We know math. Like, I have a strong biostat degree. You want me to do some, like, you know, regressions? I can do that. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

I can't I mean, I couldn't calculate cash flow. I didn't know how to know the math equation. But let's figure these things out. Doors just blow off. Like, we go from, one rental to forty rentals 

 

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in a 

 

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state of, like, three years. 

 

Speaker 0

 

That's incredible. 

 

Speaker 1

 

The inflection points along the way. Like, we Yeah. First start buying turnkey, then we get into BRRRR investing where we're buying below value, rehabbing the property, pulling the same capital back out, going tending to going re going buying another 

 

Speaker 0

 

Financing and repeat. Yeah. Yeah. Done some of those myself. So, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask because, I mean, yes, true fix and flip has certain downsides, and I actually wouldn't even necessarily considered investing myself because it's it's really it's a lot of work and it's transactional. But the you know, if you're not doing the actual flip part and you're keeping the property and you're keeping a tenant in there, yes, that does solve the the income problem to some degree. But how do you go out and buy that next property? How do you go from three to forty or what what? I mean, so in your case, you were using different strategies. Just briefly walk through, like, a a, you know, a a case study, you know, with even fake numbers, if you would, for, say, one of the properties that you did a BRRRR on and you pulled the cash out. What does that look like for the listener? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So our first BRRRR, we bought, for sixty thousand dollars. Got it. So the first ten properties we did were turnkey. So I'm buying them already rehabbed with the tenant in it. Yeah. We're running out of cash. I go to my turnkey provider, and I, you know, I'm like, hey. Will you teach me how to do this? Right. Right. I am on my last little you know, at this point, I we, you know, cry me a river. I have a hundred thousand dollars left, but I only have a hundred thousand dollars left, and I wanna continue to scale. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And my first time properties haven't baked long enough for me to pull equity out of them. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

So he was like, great. He goes, here's one that I is too small for me to do. I'm like, perfect. 

 

Speaker 0

 

That didn't fit his buy box. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Didn't fit his buy box. So sixty thousand dollars purchased, ten k goes into it. The property after we rehab it would be worth a hundred and ten thousand dollars. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Wow. And that's largely because you bought it at a discount, but and and then you forced appreciation with the rehab. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. We we cleaned it up. We put a new, I mean, it was probably I think it was off a probate sale, so we just cleaned it up, did a a little bit of paint Mhmm. Carpet and couple bedrooms. Yeah. At least a couple of appliances, not very much. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And, but it pushed the value 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

To a hundred and ten thousand. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Wow. 

 

Speaker 1

 

It put a tenant in there for just under a thousand dollars a month. And so I mean, that's 

 

Speaker 0

 

it's yeah. That's great. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So it would I we pulled all of our money back out 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And then did it again. And then we got to the point where we were able to get one or two property or two properties going at the same time. Mhmm. Under my name, one under my husband's name. Mhmm. Mhmm. So we get this little flywheel going. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And then my mom dies. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Oh, wow. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. Well, and then my husband breaks his neck. Woah. In the same week. So couldn't, they actually happened in reverse order. But, anyways, yeah, you wanna talk about that. That was the indication to me. That was the next inflection point that doing these fix and flips are great or Yep. Or Yeah. Right. Personal property and portfolio are amazing, but I need to go bigger. I'm playing too small. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Of a game. Yeah. And at this point, were you still working your day job eighty hours a week? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yep. We now at this point in time, we have a four year old at home. Wow. I wasn't working eighty hours a week. I was now, you know, still in public health, but working closer to, like, forty, forty five. Mhmm. But four year old at home. 

 

Speaker 0

 

So just a full time job, not a double of a full time job. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Exactly. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, you stack a four year old, only traveled on top of that. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. That's a lot. 

 

Speaker 1

 

You know, you know, my husband, you know, he had a mountain biking accident. He's fine, guys. You know, but, yeah, he did break his neck. It was touch and go for 

 

Speaker 0

 

That's super scary. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Super scary. Super scary. And then, yeah, then, you know, my mom, we were working through our stuff together. So and then finding out that she passed away, like, in there, you know, at home. And then having to deal with all of that, it was just crazy. 

 

Speaker 0

 

And what what year was this? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Two thousand eighteen. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. Okay. So and then, yeah, that's that's a lot of health and and just, you know, just a lot of that's a lot. Just, a lot of adversity for sure within the family. So and two thousand eighteen. So at that point, what did your portfolio look like? 

 

Speaker 1

 

So at that point in time, we have about thirty seven, thirty eight properties. 

 

Speaker 0

 

And those are all rentals? 

 

Speaker 1

 

All rentals. Mhmm. We were cash flowing, I would say, probably, like, ten to twelve thousand dollars a month. Okay. So but it didn't feel stable there because with single family rentals 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. You're a 

 

Speaker 1

 

hundred percent occupied or you're paying the bills. True. Right? So we have you know, people you know you know, things just weren't stabilized yet. Right. And I'm like, oh, I need to go bigger. Right? But the cool thing was that happened at that that period is I made that transition from a solopreneur to a business owner because I went, you know what? I'm dealing with two burning fires in my life right now, and I gotta hold it together from my my kiddo. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

You know, I honestly just told my team. I'm like, don't call me. I'll call you. Like Yeah. No. Here we are. I got everybody lined out within, like, a three day time period, and I'm like, I'm out for three months. Yeah. Maybe longer, you know, in order to Sure. To hold this to stay. And it was not that I had to do it that way 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

But that for me, emotionally, I had it that way. 

 

Speaker 0

 

So did when you were a solo entrepreneur, did you you had sounds like you had a team in place, but you were extremely active in the business. Is that what you're saying? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. You know, I was the one finding all the deals, you know, putting together all the construction budget, the lending. You know, it's very hands on 

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And everything. But I needed to to put myself in a place where I actually had systems, SOPs. Mhmm. And, you know, instead of spending, you know, three or four hours a week on these projects, I needed to be able to get away with, like, a twenty minute conversation. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Wow. And so you had someone that could handle what you were doing there? I mean, already already on your team, I guess? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yep. I already had, my property manager at the time, was very instrumental in that. So Nice. And I had, you know, two property managers, honestly, but had a conversation with both of both of them, and I'm like, you're essentially my COO. So, and I compensated them a little bit more for that. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. 

 

Speaker 1

 

You know? You know? So Right. To align the expectations and incentives. Yeah. That also gave me the space to as I'm going through settling this estate and, you know, my mom's estate, what do I really wanna do? Is 

 

Speaker 0

 

this Yeah. Well 

 

Speaker 1

 

What do I wanna do? No. It wasn't. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. And I think that's a key point, and and it's like and that's one of the things we do talk about we've talked about before is just, no. You're not looking for that adversity. You didn't want either of those two terrible things to happen in the same week. Right? Of course. But but good things do come out of of bad things. So opportunities come out of challenges. And and a lot of times, you know, the space is is what you don't have to make those strategic decisions because you're not looking at the big picture. And I just know from experience that, you know, family challenges and things can can really kind of put everything on hold, and that's can be super difficult for sure. But but it does often create that space of, like you said, what do I want, and how do how do I get there? How do I be intentional about this? So for you, what did that it sounds like not only going from active to to more having a more passive role as a business owner, but also maybe pivoting as far as asset classes in real estate. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Well, I would say I took more of a glide path into the past of the things, because I I knew I wanted to get into the larger commercial deals. I just didn't know how. And I kept myself distracted with the single family rentals because I needed to hit an income number. That's what I was telling myself. Mhmm. What how many times have you we have all told ourselves when I hit x Yeah. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Then I will allow myself to do y. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. All the time. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Instead of right? Such the worst way of going about things, and I know that trap 

 

Speaker 0

 

to fall into. What's that? Sorry. 

 

Speaker 1

 

I know that now. Right? Now I sit and be like, no. I want y. Let's reverse engineer how do I get y. I may still have to do x in order to get 

 

Speaker 0

 

1. Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

But instead of it might just be for a shorter amount of time. They're, like, four deals to build up the equity. And then, so I just didn't know what y was. I thought that I wanted to be the operator. Right? The larger the larger scale operator. I thought I wanted but, again, I think I was still trapped in my own identity, this go get it identity. Yeah. We were talking before the show. Like, my mom was an amazing feminist. Right. And some of that backfired a little bit. I never asked for help. I feel like I had to do it all myself. Like, why invest in somebody else's deals? No. I should put together the deal. It should be mine. Right? 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. And and just quickly, I was mentioning before the show when you said that that yeah. I think just like many things, many, you know, different, many times in life or many things in life, neither end of the spectrum is is really is really great. Neither extreme is is optimal. So, you know, someone who's just not willing to take any action, not willing to have you know, maybe they don't have any ego at all. They're they're just like they they ask for help immediately, and they they don't show that they're willing to take any action or get results on their own. That's not good either because who's gonna wanna help that person? I mean, you need to be able to roll up your sleeves at some point and and do some work and and be resourceful. But the other end of the spectrum is not great either where you're just a one man show, so to speak, you know, one person show, and you're not willing to ask for help because I do believe real estate investing and life in general is a team sport. We all need to do our part and work hard and take ownership of our of our lives, but at the same time, we're here to work together and collaborate, and you can get with that synergy much better results. So, yeah. So so speak to that, and how how did that work for you? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So I'm sitting here trying to kinda, like, dream into the I still didn't have a a framework or a methodology to work from. So I'm like, I don't wanna be an operator. I think I want to be a passive investor. You know, I put invested in two deals in my self directed IRA account Mhmm. Which I was like, this is amazing. I'm getting paid, and I'm doing nothing. Right. It's not as much as I could do if I were running the deal. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So I saw the value. So I was like, okay. Why not do both? Let's do both. My husband, of course, was like, you're nuts. And I'm like, yep. I probably am. So, but I didn't know how to get into the active side of general partnership on commercial building. So I put myself in the room at a conference. I bought a ticket to a conference. Mhmm. I was probably one of ten women there. So the women's bath line bathroom line. 

 

Speaker 0

 

I'm so 

 

Speaker 1

 

totally sure. We all knew each other very well by the end of the day. That's funny. So but it was amazing. I met, my, my two partners. They're now former partners there. And, I, stepped into a role with their firm and helped them grow, their, private equity firm and became the general partner on ten deals. And I loved what I was doing, but I didn't see the longevity of it. You know? So I'm doing that as well as passively investing. And I was like, I now I come to the struggle. You know? Mhmm. What when's enough enough? 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Right? I've built up the income. I've built up the equity, but I'm looking at I still haven't figured out what do I want. And the what do I want was the time, the choice, my family. Well, guess what happens in twenty twenty? The world shuts down. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Absolutely. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And you're like, here you go. Which I was I mean, I as an epidemiologist, I was just totally fascinated by what was happening you know, clinically, you know, science wise. But at the same time, I'm like, I'm you know, I wanted more time with my family. Here you go. Right. You got it. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Careful what you ask for. 

 

Speaker 1

 

No. Exactly. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Alright. So for the for the listener, you know, how what what would you say is a piece of what's a piece of advice as far as trying to figure out what they want? I mean, it's gonna be a different answer for everyone probably at to some degree. But how do you go about figuring out what it is that you do want? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So I am a big follower of the one thing, 

 

Speaker 0

 

with Gary 

 

Speaker 1

 

Kather and Jay Kapasan. And, you know, I go to their goal setting retreat every year, and one of the exercises is, always setting that vision. And, you know, they they really push you. They they say, think ten to twenty years out. And I'm like, what? It's the first the first time I did it, I could get to ten years. My husband could only get to two. So he was like, this is I don't like this. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

He was like, I'm a now person. I'm like, no. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Trying to figure out what's for dinner tonight. 

 

Speaker 1

 

You know? Exactly. You know? Yeah. So but the more you kind of flex that muscle, the easier it becomes. And so the beauty of it it is is that even if you create a vision of what you want your life to look like at ten years 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

You get to change it. You're not married to it, but it gives you some sort of direction. Right? You because anything you do when you start backing up the timeline, you know, say, you know, let's create life. Let's step into that ten year you ten years from now. Mhmm. What are you doing for your day job? Or are you working a day job? Are you an investor? Are you creating impact in the world? What are you know, where are the kids? Where where's the dog? Do you have a new dog? Like, what are you living? When we step into that life, now we can start working backwards to what needs to happen by five years to be on track to ten ten. Sure. Then we can backwards from five years what needs to happen by the end of the use this year to be on track for five years, and then we can focus on this year. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Right. Which is now now your husband's back on board again. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Exactly. Yeah. He's like, oh, yeah. And that's the thing. Usually, there's one in a part couple or partnership. There's one person that's the visionary, and that 

 

Speaker 0

 

is the dreamer. The not not just dreamer in a bad way, but dreamer, like, big picture visionary, like you said. Yep. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. And then one person who's more of, like, you know, the operations. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. More of the tactical person. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. Yeah. So but if if you can kinda cohesively get to the vision part 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And then work it back to that one year, now like you said, I could get my husband on board for one year. I could just be like, okay. This year, we are doing x, y, and z. And he's like Yeah. I gotcha. 

 

Speaker 0

 

No. I love that. That's I was in the military. One of the things they drilled into us was, backwards planning or reverse engineering, basically. But as far as the timeline goes, like, you know, now you can actually set some fairly strict deadlines that you need to hit because, you know, we don't know really what ten years is gonna look like, but in in we can set some deadlines that are realistic and and important for the next month or two and year and then go from there. And then then like you said, you can pivot and adjust and every year redo your ten year vision. So I love that. Okay. So and then kind of just walk us through from twenty twenty through today, what did your professional career look like? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yes. I made a pretty hard pivot there. Again, you know you know, we're in COVID. I'm sitting here traveling with my family, but also growing this private equity firm and, you know, wrestling with all the challenges. COVID was, you know, handing us with our multifamily portfolio. We also had hurricanes. Mhmm. Calgary goes down in Texas where a lot of our assets were. And, you know, I would that's where I kind of was like, is this what I want to do, or is it something else? Mhmm. And I really liked what I ninety percent of my job. It was the ten percent that I needed to let go. And, and I really loved talking to the investor, educating them, helping them create the plan, helping them, you know, just, you know, create those mindset shifts. Yeah. All of that. That's what I really love doing. The day to day, like, asset management Mhmm. Investor services. While I was good at this, it was a strength of mine. It was not a passion of mine. And I think that what I had to continue letting letting go. Like, my first let go was, you know, letting go of the fact that, I went to school to be in public health. Right? That was my identity. Yeah. I need to unhook that. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Now I need to let go that my strengths were attached to my identity so I could step into what I love doing and what was my power. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. That's really key. We've we've had some guests on who would the the primary theme of the episode was identity, getting rid of like, just being too attached to your identity, basically, and being being vulnerable and open to kind of redefining what that is, and and what do you do at that point? And then to your to your other point about strengths versus passion, I often talk about, you know, is it especially for a younger person choosing a career, should I lean into what I'm good at, or should I lean into what I'm passionate about, or should I lean into what the market will pay me for, what people actually want? And, you know, if you can get two of those three, then that's great. But I think when you're younger and you haven't built up the financial resources, you know, you you probably are gonna have to do things that you're good at that you're not passionate about. But as you as you have developed more financial freedom and control of your situation, you've been able you sounds like you're able to let go of a lot of those things that you were good at, but you didn't like doing. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. You know, I guess I would stack on that a little bit further. Like, if you're creating that diagram Yeah. Diagram, like, is there something in the middle to where that your your you have a strong skill at, you're passionate about, and you get paid for? 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Absolutely. 

 

Speaker 1

 

How can you drive towards that and make that, you know, even forty, fifty percent of your day? Because if you can't, then all the other things, you know, the admin type stuff doesn't feel as 

 

Speaker 0

 

Is important. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. You know, it's painful to do. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Gotcha. Got it. Yeah. You're 

 

Speaker 1

 

you're kinda but I think what a lot of people do, what I see is they lean into what am I good at and what will pay really, really well. Mhmm. And then they're trying to they get five you know, I work with a lot of physicians, and they love caring for people, but they don't system. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Okay. So so I, you know, work with them on their investing, and then that allows them to kinda back up the boat a little bit, back up the car and kinda pick up that third piece, which was their passion. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Right. Gotcha. Makes sense. Okay. So, we're running out of time here. I've got some questions for you. So what right now, before we get to the questions, what do things look like for you right now professionally and for the people you're serving? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So, you know, again, you know, just continuing my work with passive investing dot com, you know, educating the investor on how to transition their active income and savings into long term passive income and wealth. That's that's my income and savings into long term passive income and wealth. That's that's my jam. That's what I love doing, showing investors how to do that. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Nice. And you and you work you you've done, like, car wash investments, multifamily. What other types of asset classes? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. So, and, the one more asset class on top top of that would be, real estate debt funds. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. Nice. Fantastic. Yeah. We have a mortgage note fund, which is technically a debt fund. A lot of times, debt funds are more fix and flip commercial loans. Do you see any kind of hiccups in the multifamily space specifically in the coming few years with the short term debt, maturing or anything like that? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Well, I mean, more hiccups than what we've already experienced. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, I don't know. Some people are saying, like, twenty twenty six could be still a rough rough year with for some of these loans coming due. Not saying for everyone across the board at all. And every and real estate is absolutely local for sure. Yeah. But, just 

 

Speaker 1

 

Until those until those, those bridge loans are repositioned, you're gonna continue to see the the kind of pain happen there. Mhmm. You know, the and we we need to continue to monitor what's happening with, like, the ten year treasury inflation 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Jobs market, you know, because we're starting to see a real economic slowdown. And it's still that kind of like, you know, that that ship gets right. You know, we're or pointed better in a better direction. We're gonna see continued pain in that space. Mhmm. It let's say let's pretend, like, by the end of the year, all that kinda turned around. That just allows the the operators that are still struggling with those bridge debt Yeah. Probably to recover some of the their capital a little bit faster. Mhmm. But we're seeing a real drag in that arena. And, I think banks are getting to the part point where they're not really playing the extend and pretend game 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Longer. So 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. It will it will continue, but not I don't I don't I think the glut largely has happened. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Gotcha. Well, and it sounds like you've got your, hands in several different types of asset classes so you can pivot and you know? Because that's the thing. You don't we don't know what the market is gonna do, really, but, sounds like you you you and your investors can pivot to something that makes more sense. If multifamily doesn't make sense at that time, you got other asset classes to pivot to. So I love that. And do you still have your single family rentals, by the way? 

 

Speaker 1

 

No. I sold a large portion of the single family rentals and repositioned them into a multifamily 

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. Okay. 

 

Speaker 1

 

In, like, two thousand seventeen, eighteen. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. 

 

Speaker 1

 

I'd say they kinda cash out on a high note. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Makes sense. Are you ready for some rapid fire questions? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. Let's do it. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Alright, Whitney. What is one thing that people misunderstand about you? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Oh, I would say, like, my I think people, and this is why I love my husband so much. You know, a lot of people mistake, like, my drive as being, in the speed at which I can move as not caring sometimes. Right? And and and and that's just totally not the case. I just Right. I'm processing five steps ahead, and I'm like, let's jump to here. Right. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. I get like that. I get very task oriented and, you know, kind of mission, like, just results focused, and then it's like, alright. Let's where are we? If you what what what was one of your biggest failures looking back or, you know, parent failures, and what did you learn from that? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Oh, gosh. We're gonna go parent failures? 

 

Speaker 0

 

No. No. No. A a parent. Like, apparently. I mean, there's plenty of parenting failures that I'm sure you and I can both talk about. But 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. You know, I think it's something that I've been just trying. My, you know, my parents did what the best they could with the tools that they had. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. 

 

Speaker 1

 

And it's my job to level up those tools. So I don't consider them failures, but moreover, like, lessons and learning. For for me, I learned that, my child will probably have a better a more stable life if I'm around more, not traveling, like, 

 

Speaker 0

 

you know, 

 

Speaker 1

 

all the time weeks at a time for work. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

More emotionally available and connected and, you know, moving from more I mean, I grew up in a time where corporal punishment was like Mhmm. Mhmm. Nobody questioned it. Right. You know, we really, have taken a different approach with our child. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. Gotcha. If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would that be? 

 

Speaker 1

 

I would put the book cash flow quadrant in their hand. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. I love that. I like that better than rich dad, poor dad, personally. But 

 

Speaker 1

 

Right. I mean, people say, you know, I feel like we're kind of like kin. Like, we let we like the math part of it. Like, can you you need the plan? Not I 

 

Speaker 0

 

need some something to latch on to. You know? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Yeah. Yeah. So I would I would give them that book, to help them understand, you know, how money actually works. And if you want to have certain freedoms in life, this is how you need to start orienting your income in order to those freedoms. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Love that. Speaking of money, if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow with no strings attached, what would you do with it? 

 

Speaker 1

 

I would go invest it. Maybe more. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Nice. If you could have coffee with any historical figure or a drink with any historical figure, whom would you choose? 

 

Speaker 1

 

I know you said rapid fire. It 

 

Speaker 0

 

doesn't have to be 

 

Speaker 1

 

the Einstein. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Einstein. That's good. That's a that's a that's a great 

 

Speaker 1

 

one. I read the book, driving, driving I was it driving mister Albert? 

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. I haven't read that. 

 

Speaker 1

 

It's about the scientist who went and retrieved Albert Einstein's brain and drove it back across country to do studies on it. It's fascinating. You gotta read it. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, you normally ask for a book recommendation, but we've talked about at least four already. So, what is the challenge that you're facing in your in your investing in your or your business right now? 

 

Speaker 1

 

I think the biggest challenge for me is, trying to line up, which I really try to train my investors not to do, like, line up where we are in the market with the opportunity that's in front of them. Mhmm. And and and so I am continuing to remain disciplined Yeah. In that regard to be like, nope. Stick to the plan. Don't look like these home run deals, like, just in 

 

Speaker 0

 

that. No. That makes total sense. What is a controversial or unconventional strategy that you've employed in your real estate business? 

 

Speaker 1

 

So if any of the you know, the last three years of anything have told me, or have taught me that, you know, as an investor, especially a passive investor, I need to have liquidity and predictable cash flow coming in. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So I've added a huge debt layer to my portfolio. Mhmm. One you know, multiple different funds, but, you know, you know, layered with I can I get my capital back? Can I, you know, get monthly cash flow? Because that would counterbalance my equity deals and gives me actually give me permission to go into bigger equity deals and take a little bit more risk. 

 

Speaker 0

 

And for the less experienced investor, just to be clear, you're talking about investing in debt, maybe a debt fund like we talked about. Not that you're taking on the debt as the borrower, but you're although you have money in equity deals, but you also are now investing into debt funds and debt deals where you're actually buying part of that that debt. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Exactly. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. Yeah. One of our the the some of the perks of our fund, we we have a twelve month, redemption period, so it's pretty short compared to some other funds. You know, I highly recommend debt funds in general. And and, you know, one of the biggest things I can say is check out the the operator and their track record. There are a lot of lot of good debt funds out there, so I think that that's a lot that makes a lot of sense. You you talked briefly about, I think, both at least, before we started recording possibly when we after we hit record, but believing in yourself, talk a little bit more about that just, like, for the listener who may not be, you know, they're they should they push where should they push the boundary? What what should they lean on? How do you really lean into that believing in yourself thing? 

 

Speaker 1

 

You know, it's it's a it's like any muscle. It has to be developed. And, you know, you can read books. You can listen to podcasts, but, really, you have to get down to brass tacks and and create, like, little mini experiments. My daughter, she broke her ankle in July, and we're she's a well, I mean, a national level climber, but she's trying to get back into bouldering, which requires her to have to be able to take falls. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So right now, she's just, you know, out of her, you know, week or two out of her boot. I'm like, let's take one hop. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Let go. Right? Okay. Great. Let's do two hops. How did that go? 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. I like that. 

 

Speaker 1

 

We finally hit a threshold where she was like, oh, I don't wanna do any more hops. And I'm like, okay. Great. Let's do this for three days, and then we'll reevaluate. I feel like that's that's kind of the same approach that I take with anything that I'm, like, feeling really nervous about. Like, let's break it down to the insanely smallest piece. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. 

 

Speaker 1

 

Let's just do one of those things a day. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Yeah. And then you build build reps, and then you build competency, and then you you build confidence, which gets to believing in yourself. So, love that. What's one question that you wish I'd asked, but I haven't? Anything you wanna cover before we 

 

Speaker 1

 

wrap up? I no. I think we covered, you know, quite a bit. I mean, I think, I you know, if I were listening to this episode, I'd be, like, sitting here, like, tell me more about the funds that you're in. I mean, one of my favorite, I like, fix and flip debt funds because the borrower is not sensitive to pricing. True. And so and they're shorter durations. 

 

Speaker 0

 

They are. 

 

Speaker 1

 

So, like, four, six, nine months, especially if you stay in the residential real estate space. Right. So that's kinda, you know, my fave. If people wanna, like, learn more about what we do Yeah. Real estate debt, you you can reach out to me directly. I'm sure contact Absolutely. Also, like, I would you know, I I have other other debt funds that I like as well. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Nice. Yeah. And we have bought some of of a few it's a very small part of our portfolio in our fund. We bought some fix and flip loans, but and there are pros and cons to both, and I but I but I like what you listed. It makes total sense. It's a limited time exposure, you know, to the, to the note itself. And then, yeah, like you said and you can usually get if you have to go through foreclosure as the operator, we're not talking about the passive investor, but it's usually a much faster, cleaner process. And, yeah, you're not you're not evicting people out of their homes. You're you're dealing with an investment on all sides, so dealing with with, investors. So there are a lot of perks to that type of debt fund for sure. Whitney, where can our listeners find you online? 

 

Speaker 1

 

Absolutely. You can find me at passive investing with whitney dot com. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Fantastic. Any parting words of wisdom before we sign off? 

 

Speaker 1

 

You know, you know, if you need help, reach out, you know, to the person that is in your circle that's doing what you do and and ask for it. Right? Like 

 

Speaker 0

 

Love that. Love that. And you said you do mentorship for for people as well as, so you you work with some active investors as well as passive investors. Right? 

 

Speaker 1

 

I do. Yes. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Fantastic. I do as well. So, yeah, this is this is great. We're in similar but slightly different niches and doing similar things, so I love it. Whitney Elkins Hutton, thank you so much for joining us. This has been fantastic. 

 

Speaker 1

 

No. Thank you so much for having me on, Jamie. It's been a blast. 

 

Speaker 0

 

And to the listener, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. 

 

Speaker 2

 

Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. 

 

Speaker 0

 

Hey, everyone. This is Jamie Bateman. Real quickly, I wanted to share with you something, that's been pivotal in the growth and success of my businesses, and that is my partnership with Haven Financial Services. I've been working with Haven for over a year now. Christine Valdez was on episode seventy of this podcast. So go check that out if you wanna hear her story. It was a fantastic personal story for sure. But Haven has been awesome. They provide me with monthly reports that are super clear and discernible, and it that provides me with clarity and focus so that I can do what I do best, which is running my businesses, not preparing financial reports. Again, if you're in the market for a top notch financial service company, or if you just wanna check one out, go to w w w dot jamie bateman slash haven and check out Haven Financial Services. Again, that's jamie bateman slash haven. Can't recommend them enough. Christine and her team have been fantastic. So I definitely recommend you check out Haven Financial Services at w w w dot jamie bateman forward slash haven. Let's get back to the show.