Breaking Free from the Chains of Addiction through Self-Awareness with Actor and Producer Jay Jablonski

Speaker 0

 

This episode's a little bit different than many of the the episodes we've had before. It's really powerful. We chatted with Jay Jablonski, who is an old college friend of mine, and Jay Jay is an actor and movie producer. And he's, been in some big films for sure. We talk a lot about the ups and downs of his his life and his career and What's in it for you really is a discussion about self awareness, addiction, and fear I know that, unfortunately, a lot of us can relate to all of those things. And fortunately, unfortunately, but Jay had a lot of fear that was kind of throughout his life, fear that anything going well was gonna end, that he was gonna screw it up. And this, you know, he did screw a lot of things up. I think he would, admit that. I think he has admitted that, so that's not me piling on. But he would take bad situations and make them worse by turning to drugs and alcohol. And his career, which would was taking off in in Hollywood, started to take a nosedive, and then he hit rock bottom, and we're gonna talk about that. And he's sober now, has a new movie out, which he's an actor in and a producer of. It's not your typical entrepreneur. Discussion. It's not a lot about business. It's more about life. And, although actors in a lot of ways are entrepreneurs This one is more relatable in some ways for anyone dealing with addiction or fear. We talk about community, the importance of community, but the importance of taking ownership of your situation and being intentional about what is important to you and what you want in life and the this and putting yourself in in situations and environments where you can thrive. This one is outstanding. Buckle up.

 

Speaker 1

 

Welcome to the from adversity to abundance podcast. Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur, then this show is for you. Each week, we bring you impactful stories of real people who have overcome painful human adversity to create a life of abundance. A life of abundance. You are not alone in your struggle. Join us and you will experience the power of true stories and gain practical knowledge from founders who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth. This podcast will encourage you through your health, relationship, and financial challenges So you can become the hero in your quest for freedom. Take ownership of the life you are destined to live. Turn your adversity into abundance.

 

Speaker 0

 

Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm super pumped today to have with me an old friend of mine, Jay Jablonsky, Jay as an actor, producer, We'll get into all the other things he's he's dabbled in over the years. Jay, how are you doing today?

 

Speaker 2

 

I'm great, man. It's great to great to be with you, Jamie.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Absolutely. I know we were joking before we hit record that you were up all night and nervous about this. You know, you're you're really not good behind the the zoom camera.

 

Speaker 2

 

Your your reputation as as the the hardest presser on the on the interview circuit is, it it it it's legendary. So

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, well, I'll try to put you at ease and we'll we'll make it, you know, we'll get through this.

 

Speaker 2

 

I appreciate it.

 

Speaker 0

 

So, Jay, for the listener out there who is not familiar with you, who are you and what are you up to today?

 

Speaker 2

 

My name is Jay Jablonsky. I am an actor and a film producer. As as you mentioned, you know, we went to Gettysburg College together, my my my story of kinda how I got into this is is, I I never I didn't plan on being in the entertainment industry. I I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to be in the military when I was young and some injuries, while at Gettysburg, prevented that from from coming to fruition, but but it brought me to this path. So I guess I'm very grateful for that.

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. So I know we'll get into your, most, your your recent movie release, which is which is exciting. Yeah. It's pretty pretty awesome what you're up to, but, let's dive in. You you refer to your backstory. So let's let's dive in. You know, the so, obviously, the the the podcast is called from adversity to abundance. And, you and I had a call before, and we we talked about a good bit of the adversity that you've been through, which is very, very real. And, you know, the the goal is not to make anybody cry or anything like that, but but if it happens, you know. But, no, I appreciate you being vulnerable, you know, before we get into this, I I'll just say I appreciate you, being vulnerable with with the, the listener and the whole intent here is to inspire people and to let them know that, hey, look, you're you're gonna go through some rough times. We all do. And, this is Jay's story, and and we're we're here to pull out lessons that you've learned, and and hopefully we can prevent some pain and hardship for other people. And and then talk about some of the adversity that you've you've reached whether, you know, whatever shape that has taken. So you referred to, to Gettysburg, maybe, is that a good place to start?

 

Speaker 2

 

Sure. Yeah. You know, when we were in a when we were at Gettysburg in, in the nineties, Jamie, we're getting old, You know, I I went into school. I had always been, I was sort of a poster boy for ADHD, my whole my whole life. That when when I was a kid, ADHD wasn't really on the forefront of things. You were just sort of known as an asshole.

 

Speaker 0

 

You you were cutting edge on that that scene.

 

Speaker 2

 

Exactly. But, I had a lot of energy. I think we talked that. And I I owe I truly from as young as I can remember, I felt like I was plugged in. I felt like I had the, like, truly, like, electricity, just so much energy running through me. And that that was a that could be a beautiful thing. If harnessed, if harnessed correctly and and allocated to to to a good source, or it could be a real negative thing, especially if I didn't get it out. And, So going into college, you know, I was an athlete throughout high school, everything. I I lived to play football. I was not very I was not the Jamie bateman of La Cross to the Gettysburg Bullitt Football Team at all, but I did love playing. And and, I very much identified with with as being an athlete my entire life. Yeah. And so when I went into college, as I said, I was an economics major. I had no intention or or or thought of really going into the acting world bill. I gotta tell you. I was always very, very intrigued by the acting world. I I used to do plays when I was a little kid in, like, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade. And then by the time I got to high school, it was it was all about sports. So there were no time for the plays anymore. When I went to college, I I took an economics, degree or I I took an economics major, strictly because I grew up about, you know, thirty miles outside Manhattan. I figured I'll probably end up in finance in some way or another. But what I really wanted to do was was go to the marine corps. So I spent my whole freshman year applying to and testing for, officer candidate school for the for the United States Marine Corps. And I was accepted at the end of the year. I went to Quantico for about two months, and it's just a beatdown. You know? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. They weed you out. I think we started with maybe thirty or thirty six guys in our platoon or something. It's been a long time, so Sure. Numbers might be up, but I think we graduated with, like, eleven. And it was it was the hardest and and also the best thing I had ever done. It was awesome. And when I came back to school, you know, I went right into football camp. So having spent two months at OCS in that heat and everything. And and with those physical demands, I had lost a ton of weight. And I remember my my OSo, my officer selection officer said something to the effect of your football coach is gonna hate me because I I was supposed to get me going into camp.

 

Speaker 0

 

And you were, you were running back. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

I was. I was running back. And, and I gotta say, so so So sophomore year. So during that preseason, you know, I felt like I was performing performing pretty well and everything very well, actually. And I got kind of not to get too into it, but I butted heads a bit with with, with my coach. And it was over it was over playing time and this and that. And long story short, My emotional quotient back then was was not nearly what it is today. Mhmm. And in and I got we got drunk one night and we were talking. I think it was about something with football and everything, and I was pissed at the situation. And I put my hand through the window. And I cut the nerves and tendons in my right hand, and it ended that season completely, obviously.

 

Speaker 0

 

Right.

 

Speaker 2

 

Completely my fault. And what would what what could have been a a a really good warning sign for me to to maybe leave alcohol in in the past. I just didn't heed that warning whatsoever.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. Yeah. No. And that's I just had a I just had a guess on the show, who we talked about compounding. He actually talked about. You know, now granted, we're we're using hindsight here. We're much older as you said, Jay. It's very easy for us to look back and say, Jay should have made a better decision in this in this situation, you know, in these circumstances, of course. Right? But Right. You took a challenging situation and you made it worse just to just to at at the risk of beating you up over this.

 

Speaker 2

 

No. No. No. Please.

 

Speaker 0

 

Please. You made it you compounded the situation because you decide to get not only get drunk, but also then, you know, lost control of what probably, you know, so then then you damaged your your hand and then you lost your season. And I and again, easy for me to sit here and pick you apart. But

 

Speaker 2

 

No, please.

 

Speaker 0

 

I guess, for the listener, it's like, look, bad things are gonna happen. You're gonna have situations where you're not playing as much as you want to, or I'm assuming you weren't happy with your the you thought you should be playing more You weren't you weren't mad that you were playing too much. I'm I'm guessing. But, so you took took a challenging situation and you made it worse. Unintentionally, but you made it worse. And so now you've got now you missed your entire season.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep.

 

Speaker 0

 

And as I can relate to, and many listeners can relate to your identities wrapped up in this. And so it's not just, oh, how many yards was I gonna, you know, rush for that season or whatever. It's, like, this is this is who you are back then. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Right. Well, it it's a couple of things. You talked about compounding compounding what was already a a bad issue. And and hindsight is twenty twenty. And and I'm really good at beating myself up at times as I'm sure we all are. You know, one of the things that disappoint me most about my reaction, to it all was the fact that being on a football team, or or whatever sport you play, you're part of a team. It's not it's not an individual sport. So, in football, you have eleven guys on on a side. And if every guy isn't doing their job, the machine doesn't run well, right, kind of build way.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

And, and I was thinking I was coming at that from a a very individualistic kind of attitude right there. I was saying, look at look at the numbers I put up in this game. Look at, like, what, what, you know, and it was I didn't make the final call. Coach does that. And and I was there to serve a to serve a team and to be a member of a team. And so, anyway, that that was that's that's that's something that I'd really lost sight of, I think. When I did get injured, when I did put my hand through that window and everything in the season was over, I was I was terrified of a couple things. Number one, it's the first time since third grade that I wasn't gonna play football. Number two, I don't I wasn't sure what kind of use I was gonna have of my hand again, having cut the nerves and tendons the way I did. And number three, I didn't know how that was gonna affect moving forward with the Marine Corps. So, Fortunately, I was able to, you know, use my hand again and everything. But I did I did lose a lot of, a lot of cut, like, the sensation in it. Mhmm. Anyway, I I I started worrying, though, like, I just couldn't imagine not playing football. So I needed something to fill that void. And I began thinking of things that I could do this and that, and I just remembered I always I always had a love for theater. From when I was a kid, for acting for entertainment, I was very much sort of like a a a clown, like a a funny, you know, I'm trying to be a funny guy a lot and all that kind of thing. And so I started taking theater classes at Gettysburg. And it was a wonderful experience. It kinda it kinda brought me back into that world. And, I continued doing that for for the next three years.

 

Speaker 0

 

Gotcha. So and then what was the story with the the military at this point with the marine corps?

 

Speaker 2

 

So, so the the way I'll obviously candidate school works is you go summer after freshman year. And what you can do it one way or another, you can do it in one long summer, but that would have did me from going to, football camp on time.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

So I did it summer after freshman year, and I would go back summer after Junior or or so at y. Yeah, good. Going into junior or during I came back from that injury sophomore year and junior year about maybe the third weekend in a in a scrimmage. I tore my ACL and PCL and my my right knee, and that was the end of that season.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it.

 

Speaker 2

 

So and that also Yeah. That was the end of going to OCS after that summer. So the idea was I would go instead summer after senior year now. So the plan was to be, you know, commissioned as a second lieutenant upon graduation.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep. That wasn't gonna happen at graduation. So I thought I would go back. But

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it.

 

Speaker 2

 

I went back again senior year and the second day of preseason, I tore the ACL. Off the screws and the MCL again on the same knee. And, that was just that was the whole end of the the whole Marine Corps.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. I see. Yeah. And then again, this is The caveat here is that, look, we we're doing a forty five to sixty minute podcast episode, and and we're glossing right over all this, like, real very challenging time, you know, and so but that's I mean, that's yeah. I mean, I can't I mean, that's I would I would get injured in lacrosse. I, you know, but I never I never had a devastating injury. Of course, I did just recently, two years ago, rupture. My Achilles is playing badminton, but we can, yeah, you can make fun of me for that after we

 

Speaker 2

 

No, Dennis. No.

 

Speaker 0

 

But but, yeah, thankfully, didn't ever have such a devastating injury, you know, during the during my college career in lacrosse, but, I mean, that's huge. And so yeah. So two different years in a row. It sounds like you had Three. Well, three you have one

 

Speaker 2

 

of the field. One of the courses. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

It's the three major injuries whether self induced or not. And so that kinda derailed both your football career and and your OCS, your your military, career. And And by the way, I did do OCS for in the army later, but it's the, you know, the the the long summer, in in Georgia, which was super hot. But, and and also very challenging and, also great experience, but and also lost a lot of weight during I can relate to a lot of that. But, but this isn't about me, but, and so so you got back into, you know, kind of a blessing in disguise. It sounds like you got act into acting and theater. So how did that how did that go from there?

 

Speaker 2

 

So, well, like I said, yeah, I I I did. I was I started doing, the one x plays and some of the the other plays at school and everything, and and I loved it. I I clocked the bug, you know, again, I forgot I had forgotten how much I missed it. And, and so I very quickly in the back of my mind was am I gonna go pursue a finance job or am I gonna give this this acting thing a shot. Mhmm. And, now during all of this, I'll just stay at school. My drinking, you know, which which, which was was already an issue that I didn't recognize. But it was only progressing with all of these injuries and the inability to go out and get that energy out that I spoke of at the beginning. I I was I was searching for just escape. Total total escape. And and it's it was scary because my lack of presence for a long time, at Gettysburg and Beyond, was was really It was a little bit scare it's it's scary looking back on it, you know. The the the the need for escape, the SIPda search for escape and everything, kind of fueled me. And when you're doing that, it's very hard to be to be present and and, you know, and and focused. So, but anyway, Yeah. So so we got through college, graduate, told my dad, I think I'm gonna give this acting thing a shot. My dad said to me, just promise me if you're gonna do it, do it a hundred percent. After college, I moved to Manhattan. I studied a bit more there. And then I knew in the back of my mind that I was gonna have to go to LA. That was I'd I'd have dreams about Los Angeles and the industry and all this kind of stuff, and I had never been to LA. I'd never I just I was dreaming about what I thought LA was. And, so one day I packed up, and I at twenty four, I drove cross country, And I didn't have a place to live anything. I just said, well, I'll I'll figure it out as part of the adventure. And, you know, it was It was it was awesome. It it was a very exciting time in my life, for sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

Did you have? I mean, you must have had a friend out there, some some kind of, like, remote a semblance of a plan. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

Not really. So truly, not not really. When I when I was driving cross country, friend of a friend said, Hey, you know that, Danny and Jared moved out there. These guys are a few years younger than me. And Danny's coming home, Jared's gonna meet a roommate. And I said, cool. Where where is it? And they said it's

 

Speaker 0

 

in bad eyes.

 

Speaker 2

 

And I was like, it sounds glorious. And that eyes was anything but glorious at the time. And, and but it was great. It was just you know what I mean? It was something It was the opposite side of where I I grew up. I grew up in a very small kinda cookie cutter town, very fortunate to grow up there. It offered a lot of opportunity and and it was idyllic in a lot of ways. But it was also very much a bubble as as so many small towns are. And so I knew as a kid, I wanted out. Like, the Marine Corps was gonna offer me that. Now this is gonna offer me that I was just like, I'm leaving. So, So yeah, it was all very, very exciting and, and all very eye opening as to how how very little I knew about life

 

Speaker 0

 

in in

 

Speaker 2

 

the real world.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yep. Okay. So you get to LA and and what happens?

 

Speaker 2

 

I get out there, and I had no I I had no I didn't know anything about the entertainment industry. I was just trying to figure it out. So first thing I did was I got a job. I actually got three jobs. I was working at a clothing store. I was doing flooring demolition and at night through the night, and then I would do, I was working at the Sony Studios just sort of as an office grunts, you know, do this, do that, file this way, whatever. But I was hoping you know, in in in being there, I might start meeting people and and Sure. You know, get a get a leg up somehow. And and eventually I did. I I met somebody there who introduced me. I think it was to his mother-in-law who became my first my first agent, and that was pretty fortunate. And the first In the first, well, let let me take this back a minute because I don't wanna gloss over an important thing. So I did that for the first. I I was I moved there in March of twenty of March of o one.

 

Speaker 0

 

1.  

 

Speaker 2

 

And in November of o one. I went home for Thanksgiving break.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

And now I didn't drink really at all when I went out to Los Angeles. I Okay. I think subconsciously, leaving where I was from everything. It was an opportunity for me to leave the demons in the past too. Even though I didn't verbally recognize them, I think subconsciously knew they were there.

 

Speaker 0

 

Kind of a reset Yep.

 

Speaker 2

 

And then when I went back home at Chris at Thanksgiving, it was the night before Thanksgiving. I got absolutely gassed up. And when we left a bar that night, my friends were walking down the street and they were maybe a hundred yards ahead of me or something. And I was looking for him. I see him and I go running down the sidewalk. And rather than just run on the sidewalk, I needed to make it interesting. And I chose to jump while running full speed off of like a six foot brick wall, which landed into a parking lot. And when I landed, my knee dislocated, my other, my good knee at the time, and I landed on it, and I shattered that knee into seven pieces.

 

Speaker 0

 

Wow.

 

Speaker 2

 

That kept me home in Jersey. I had surgery. I was trying to recover. I didn't walk right for, like, I don't know, probably about eight months or so. And and I got through that. I returned to Los Angeles. And Fortunately, I kinda picked up where I left off. And very quickly, I started booking national commercials and and small roles on soap operas and and co stars and and this sort of thing.

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

So there was never I seemed to have gotten away with it again. You know what I mean?

 

Speaker 0

 

Like Yeah. Yeah. And in in hindsight, it's another pretty big warning. Like, hey, you probably shouldn't be doing the drinking thing.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

You know, yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

I was I was never looking I didn't have self a lot of self awareness. Years later, my brother would tell me, you, your self awareness is seriously lacking, and he he was so dead on. But when you're in it and and you're Yeah. You just there's a refusal often or just an unwillingness and or an inability to see to see that truth.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

And so at that point, I wasn't seeing it. And and as I said, essentially, I got away with it again. Like Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. I

 

Speaker 2

 

got away with putting my hand through a window. I got away with jumping off a wall and now my career seems to be going pretty well. And while that's that's that can seem like a blessing in the moment to get away with something. Right. I sometimes wonder if I didn't get away with it would I have made some of these lifestyle changes a lot earlier. And who who knows? You know, I I I have no idea whether that's true or I would have or not. But Right. Nevertheless, I I do wonder sometimes. Anyway, I start, I start booking stuff. I catch, the attention of a of a very powerful agent out there. And under his, kind of tutelage, if you will, or whatever. I start booking, some independent films and and and some leads very quickly. So everything moved very fast, in in my career. And and at that time, And it would it seemed to be on a really good trajectory, and I was having a lot of fun. And and I was doing pretty good work as well. There's something also to be said about things happening very quickly because There was a lot that I didn't know. There was so much that I didn't know.

 

Speaker 0

 

You mean that About life or about acting or or just

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, about life, about, the business side of acting. You know what I mean? The the there's it's much more than just showing up knowing your lines and and hitting your marks. There's a business. There's a way to behave. There's a there's a an eagerness to learn and and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And the speed at which some some of the things that were happening I I don't know if that precluded me, from from I I didn't have the appreciation that I do now. I'll tell you I'll tell you that. That's that's a very

 

Speaker 0

 

For some for some of the opportunities you were getting and Yeah. Yeah. So what what is that? Just briefly, what is that? Like, you know, for any actor who's trying to make it big. Because, you know, we talk in the entrepreneur entrepreneurship world at it's very different, you know, being a great, I don't know, baker, versus running a bakery or, you know, many bakeries very different skill set running the business. So what is that like as a as a as an actor trying to make it big, you know, from the business standpoint?

 

Speaker 2

 

Understanding the game, and it it's all a game. Everything's a game. Right?

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. It's understanding the game is, it would behoove anybody to understand the game before entering the game. And I was very much with that energy that I had with the enthusiasm that I had. And I think my enthusiasm has been it's been a real blessing in my life, and and it could be a curse as well. But it it it has helped me in a in a number of ways to either gain attention or and whatever. So my enthusiasm kinda got me through the gates without necessarily knowing, I knew how to I don't mean that. I'm talking about the business side of it. But and and by the way, I could certainly have still I I and I'm you can I'm still getting better as an actor. It's not like I

 

Speaker 0

 

know it. You know? You're right. Right. Sure. There's there's always room for improvement. Understood.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yes. Always. But, especially if you see some of my early work, but, but I, yeah, I didn't really understand the game. I I got in. I was I was it was sort of like trial by fire, and there's something to be good about that as well. But, I don't know. I I I very quickly. So I booked a small movie called unrest that Lionsgate put out. It was a horror film, and I had a supporting lead in it. And the director of that Jason Ipsson, amazing guy. He took me to dinner while we were shooting and said, I thought I I thought he was gonna say take it down a bit. You know, I was doing a lot of improving I

 

Speaker 0

 

would like

 

Speaker 2

 

kind of the class clown of the of the, in the feature. That was my role.

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Right.

 

Speaker 2

 

And, so And he said, look, I wanna write my next film for you. And I said, oh, okay. Cool. And sure enough, nine, ten months later, He had a script, he had funding, and we were we were, like, heading out to Boston to to shoot. And after that, I did another film, with Val Kilmer and another film with Topher Grace and Chris Pratt and Anna Barris. And I did I just things were moving, really well. And it was strange because now looking back, the more success that I was gaining the less belief I had in myself.

 

Speaker 0

 

Interesting. Is that now why I mean, the that's a huge question, but but why is that

 

Speaker 2

 

So I I I think I know now why. From from a very young age, I kind of bought into the narrative that I was gonna screw it up anyway. I I I don't know. As as a kid, I Like I said, my energy, everything kinda thing, like, I was all over the place. Like, you'd be, like, sit down in class and pay attention. I had a really hard time sitting still just and and just looking. I I didn't learn that way. Like, it wasn't, like, I had a very hard time retaining just by being talked at. And, and so You know, you'd get you'd get admonished by your teachers, your parents, whatever it might be. And they're all looking at they're all coming from a place of love. They they're all doing it is they want the best for you, of course.

 

Speaker 0

 

Right. Absolutely.

 

Speaker 2

 

When you can't perform at the level that they want or or just you know, do what they want. It doesn't come naturally. There's something that there's a narrative that begins to unfold. And it's basically like Yeah. I'm gonna screw it up anyway. I'm gonna do it wrong. I'm gonna do it. And

 

Speaker 0

 

and also just to chime in the the, I mean, you'd had twice three times your football career was was taken away from you in a sense. Yes. Whether you had a role in that or not, it doesn't matter. It's, like, So something good was going it's going well, and then it's then it's ripped away from you. And then the military thing ripped away from you. So you know, I don't even we don't even have to frame it whether you screwed it up or not, but it's like something's going really well and the conditions your circumstances in your life are really good and things are taking off. But your experience has been that good thing is probably, you know, the those good things we're taking are often taken away from me. Is that fair

 

Speaker 2

 

to say? And that that started young because, like, even, like, whether it was school and I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do or at the level that I that people thought I should be doing whatever it was. Mhmm. It was we're gonna threaten you with taking something away

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

In order to motivate you to do good. Well, that approach, I think, is much more of an old school approach. I don't think that's that's as prevalent today. I certainly hope not. And and it's a terrible approach. Because or or I should it's less than stellar. It's it it It instills fear. Sure. And it makes fear your motivator.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

And that can be a good thing in some at at times. But to to for fear to be the driving force behind everything, I don't think that's the most optimal way to live. Unapproachments. So I I had a fear, a a level of fear in me that I that I didn't even know. And it it was always there. And so as I started becoming more more and more successful per se, fear that voice

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

It's becoming louder and louder. And and I and I knew the one way that I could drown out that voice was Yeah. With substances.

 

Speaker 0

 

Gotcha. Yeah. And so, I mean, in that context, it makes sense that you would have that fear. But at the time that you're a rising star, not saying you're not a star now, but I'm not a rising star. But, you know, from the outside, most people would say, like, why would you have that fear? You're you're crushing it, man. Like, this makes no sense. So I appreciate you being vulnerable to sharing that because for the, you know, most of our listeners are not actors, but they're gonna find themselves in a similar situation where they have that fear, you know, and and from the outside, it may look unwarranted. And so appreciate you being being transparent and vulnerable there. So you so you, but you turn to substances. So walk us through kind of, you know, the next few years, how did that go?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So, you know, I in as a young actor and everything in in Hollywood, I was supplementing my income. With doing, you know, gig work. Like, I was bartending at night, stuff like that.

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

Mhmm. And I was which is a giant party scene. I mean, like LA is LA's a wonderful place. And it's it's also full of a lot of temptation and and and everything. But, so I'm working literally, like, at the party per se. It's I'm working in the the biggest clubs in Los Angeles. Bartending, this and that. And so I guess I was just around it, and I'm not blaming the clubs or anything. This is all Mhmm. My own doing for sure. But I just the the places that I was working at just made it e it all very readily available.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. Yeah. No. What I what I would say to that is, for the most part, all of us are really bad at at some point, your your willpower, even if you didn't want to participate in some of those things, it's just that's your environment that you're that you're in, whether you put yourself in and you know, that's probably the for all of us that you just, like, don't put yourself in that environment if you're not gonna be able to, you know, with, withstand the the pressures. But, again, we're beating you up in hindsight.

 

Speaker 2

 

No. But it's I'm glad you said that because the thing the thing about it is is that I never the what you just said about recognizing, okay, maybe I shouldn't go into the Subarin. That would have taken me sitting down for even a minute and and and trying to be discerning about my decisions. You know what I mean?

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

Well, that that takes self awareness. And and I that was seriously lacking. And, you know, I I look at, like, when I was playing football and, as a running back and everything. I wasn't a giant guy. I wasn't gonna necessarily run through you, but I was really shifting side to side. You know, and I was very reactive in that in that sense. Well, you know, with acting, that reactiveness, was it it it can be a very good thing because as long as you're being present and you're honestly. It obviously lends to to a good character work and everything.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

But Again, there's a time and place to be reactive, and it's not always. Like, you

 

Speaker 0

 

know what

 

Speaker 2

 

I mean? But but if you're coming from a place of fear, fear will cause you to be reactive. You know, fear will cause anyone to to to be a really reactive person. You know, when when you think of what happens when you get afraid, you, you know, you jump, you, oh, it's it's a reaction. It that's exactly what it is. Well, it's that same thing. If I if I was feeling afraid and not even knowing it, I was probably reacting in some in some way that was not gonna behoove me long term.

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. It makes a lot makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's Again, we have the, you know, the the advantage here of hindsight and, looking back, and now we can say, okay. Jay didn't have the self awareness to realize he was living you were living in fear and reacting in ways that were making your situation worse which is a a strength of yours, the the reaction and whether it's mental or physical, can be a strength, but in that context, it was not a strength. It was it was making making things worse for you. So you know, how did, you know, let's fast forward a little bit. And and I know you kinda hit, you know, some you hit rock bottom. What what did that look like?

 

Speaker 2

 

So, so after, after doing a series of movies, when I was younger and everything, I my my drinking was just progressing. And it wasn't. I was never the kind of guy who woke up in the morning and and was, like, drinking on the way to work or something like that. It wasn't like that. Yeah. But, there's something. So I go to AA and I sit in rooms and and You know, the best part of AA is just is is being in a room full of other people who, have either gone through similar things that you have or whatever, but you listen to these people and you pick up on things in your own life. And it offers a number of things. It offers number one an insight as to why I did things or or how I did things. But it also, it also allows allows everyone in that room to not feel alone because we're all really good at saying, oh my god, I'm the only person who's ever done this and blah, blah, blah, you know, it's like So most likely you're not. And, and and most likely, it's not as bad as we we make it out to be. You know, I'm not robbing banks or or, you know, stealing verses or whatever, you know, I was not doing that kind of stuff. But, but so I remember hearing the the about alcoholism. And some in the in the big book and in the room, they were just saying, it's an allergy of the body and an obsession of the mind. I remember sitting in in the in a meeting and hearing that for the first time and thinking about it. And I was like, wow. That makes total sense. Because when I got drunk, I didn't know if I was gonna be like the normal just you know, Joville is sort of social person that night or if I was just gonna be fired up and, like, let's go, you know, who knows what was gonna happen? You know, like, It was like pouring gasoline on fire. And I I didn't know which one of those were gonna come out. Well, that's the allergy part because if you're reacting to a sedative, in a way that's making you fired up through the roof, most likely your body is is allergic to that. And the obsessive part, was twofold for me. Number one, when I started drinking, I I didn't have an off switch. My my brother used to call me the one beer wonder. He'd said he'd say if I wanted you to go out and you didn't wanna go out, all I had to do was get one beard to your lips, and you were guaranteed to be the last person coming home. And there was no off switch. And the other the other obsessive part was And I didn't realize this till later, either was while I was drinking, let's say I drank on a Tuesday, I didn't drink on a Wednesday and Thursday, but I knew I was gonna be drinking on Friday. That Wednesday and Thursday, my mind was thinking about what's coming up on Friday.

 

Speaker 0

 

So you you weren't present when you were so

 

Speaker 2

 

I wasn't present there either. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Gotcha.

 

Speaker 2

 

Exactly. And I was thinking about I I was so I was thinking about the escape. So

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it.

 

Speaker 2

 

So anyway, my career started taking a nosedive. And Now at the time that it started

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

Like any typical, addict or alcoholic, whatever, I blamed everything else but myself. Yeah. You know, it wasn't couldn't possibly be my fault. And, you know, and And, of course, it was my fault. So the career was going down. I had a number of I'm sorry.

 

Speaker 0

 

Go ahead. Sorry. But so but you do think because you never know it could be you know, causality versus correlation are not the same thing, causation correlation. So you do think that it was your drinking and and substance abuse that was a direct cause to your career decline.

 

Speaker 2

 

I think it was a a a part. I I think the biggest part was that, that fear state of mine Sure. Was had became consuming.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it.

 

Speaker 2

 

And that was that's what really did it. The the things that made me attractive to producers or directors or whatever. And I don't I don't physically attractive. What I mean is that the enthusiasm that I'm I was about and the the the joy of of doing it all Yeah. Was going away. I was becoming numb I was becoming, short-tempered. And I was becoming like, the gratification, the immediate gratification kind of thing, was so much more abundant than than it should have been. You know? And when that happens again, there's a serious lack of appreciation. There's a lack of gratitude There's certainly a lack of presence.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. So you're not you're not present when you're sober, you're not really present when you're not sober. You don't have and you didn't have long term thinking. It sounds like as far

 

Speaker 2

 

as Yeah. I do.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So go yep. Go ahead.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So the so so the career started going downhill a bit, I had a number of other surgeries during this time, that were, you know, I kept running out there. I I ran in the mountains for for years and this and that. And so just a number of different things happen, but, and through those surgeries, I was on pain medication as well. So, I developed a pretty good Viking habit for a number of years as well. And Gotcha. I think pretty good. I mean, pretty bad. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

No. Right. Now I appreciate you and, you know, being vulnerable. And I'll I'll just share. I had, you know, back injuries, you know, probably fifteen years ago. And it was amazing to me how easily just how quickly I was prescribed pain meds. In my case, it was tramadol. And, If if you Google tram at all, it's like some people claim it's more addictive, physically addictive than you know, some of the harder core because they call it a pseudo narcotic.

 

Speaker 2

 

Right.

 

Speaker 0

 

It's not really a narcotic, but,

 

Speaker 2

 

you know,

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. It's addictive. It really is. Like, read some of the forum forums online and, you know, so it it's not something to mess around with. I'm not saying you should never take tram it all in all cases, but just be careful. And so to the listener, it's like it's it's not something to just take lightly. So Sounds like you had a pretty bad attention to to vicodin?

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. It was it was pretty bad. I mean, I was due I was taking you know, about a hundred twenty milligrams a day for for a number of years. And that's, That's a lot of that's Sounds a lot. Twelve, ten milligram pills of the evidence.

 

Speaker 0

 

It's because you need you need more and more to I mean, to to feel the same way that you needed, you know, one tenth of that, right,

 

Speaker 2

 

before And what and again, like, while this stuff is happening, it's so It's not I'm not trying to make an excuse. But it's so hard to even recognize it because your body requires this stuff now Yeah. To to feel normal. Sure. So of course, you're kinda gonna do, like, your your life starts becoming about the drug. You know, I think, there's a there's a I I believe that the word addiction is a Latin word for enslavement.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

Something along those lines. And, it's it's such a perfect thing because you're no longer living in your life for you or or and most importantly, you're no longer living it for others as well. You know what I mean?

 

Speaker 0

 

Yes.

 

Speaker 2

 

Community is so important. All that happens with all of these these substances and everything is isolation becomes more and more and more the daily norm. And that's just a terrible place to be because you're you're just living in your head at that point. And my head already worked worked fast enough. Like, it's so, you know, so many thoughts. So, so it in what what starts off as a pursuit for an escape very much becomes, an enslavement by my own hand.

 

Speaker 0

 

That's a great, great way to put it. Excellent way to put it. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

And, And so, you so this went on for a number of years. And, during all this, you know, like I said, my career faltering. I was doing some some cool stuff, you know, I did like the big short and bad moms and some really big things in in in the middle of all this kind of stuff. And and never what sucks is that I never looked at that and and said, if you're able to book these things amongst these like absolute tightens of the industry. Yeah. Why, you know, what what what what could you do, Jay, if you if you got your shit together for the

 

Speaker 0

 

food. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Few or sober, you know, and just really locked in, dialed in, to your career. I mean, yeah, those are some impressive things to be doing in those circumstances.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. And, so So, anyway, during all of this, I ended up getting back together with a with a girl that I dated years prior. And it was a girl that I thought, you know, I We dated for a short time. We broke we we kinda split up, and I thought about her for years. For whatever reason, she was just on my mind. And we got back together and it was going really well. And then we went up to, the San Francisco area for, like, an engagement party of one of her cousins. Okay. And at that point, I wasn't I wasn't taking any, payments I really wasn't drinking, but a few times a year. And on those few times, I'd go big, but it really wasn't wasn't doing it. I I had started to kinda make some changes. And then we go up there and her cousins, you know, at the after party, you're saying, oh, let's do a shot. Let's do a shot. And Finally, I do. One shot of Jameson, and and that that one beer wonder that my brother talked about, it happened. You know? And you're

 

Speaker 0

 

like, will you're like, will Farrell and old school, you

 

Speaker 2

 

know? Yeah. It's frank to tank.

 

Speaker 0

 

Exactly. Streeking through the gymnasium.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Yeah. And, I might have done and get his work. But, go this far.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. We're very happy there was no Instagram Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

Oh my gosh. I know. But, you know, so there's this There's something also like in in AA terms. They call it the phenomenon of craving. And so it's like when you take that first sip, or whatever. The phenomenon of craving

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm.

 

Speaker 2

 

Comes like over you, and it's just it's just I need more. More. You know what I mean? It's the I don't know if I ever enjoyed a drink in my life. Like, I think about that. Like, Why would you do something so, persistently and so excessively if you don't even enjoy doing it? You know what I mean? I never took a sip and was like, wow, this is I taste the aroma of leather chocolate. Know, it's like, no. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Take it down more. And so, I took that first drink. You know, they they say it's the first drink that gets you drunk because we don't take that first drink. You're good to go. And, and I just went all in, and then it was that it was cocaine all night. It was you know what I mean? And it was it was just it was just, needless to say, and the next day I'm meeting her parents. And I didn't sleep a wink. And so needless to say that relationship didn't last. Weird.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it.

 

Speaker 2

 

And, you know, it's

 

Speaker 0

 

What's her problem? Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

But I will say that night, that, that incident, that whole thing. For whatever reason the next day, I said I'm never I'm never drinking again. I'm never doing

 

Speaker 0

 

that. Gotcha. You

 

Speaker 2

 

know, drugs getting and And I didn't and I and

 

Speaker 0

 

I And what, what year was this approximately?

 

Speaker 2

 

It was March of twenty eighteen.

 

Speaker 0

 

Got it. Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep. And and and, so I I kinda white knuckled it. I got off. I got off everything. Thing and and I had, you know, a couple of few times. At that point, like I said, I wasn't taking, pills or anything, but I Mhmm. It took me, like, three different tries to, like, really get off.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

Like, I mean, that stuff was nasty and way harder than than the booze. But I but I did stop. And that year, I I didn't jump into the AA program. I hired a life coach first, and I worked with him, and I started getting different, you know, just different perspective and and learning about awareness. And I remember him telling me that, Our our awareness is like a toolbox. He said, so if I were to come to you and I'd give you, some fisher price tools, And I said, Jay, you know, I said, Jamie, go go build me this house, and use these tools. The chance of you building a very good structure is pretty smooth.

 

Speaker 0

 

It would be very good. No. It'd be awesome. Right.

 

Speaker 2

 

But if I gave you DEWALT tools, you have a much better shot.

 

Speaker 0

 

Much better shot. Absolutely. Respectable.

 

Speaker 2

 

So, he's he was saying that's that's very similar to our to our where our self awareness is as we gain more and more they become the the DEWALT tools. And, and it's through, you know, he he also said to me he's like, you beat yourself up about a lot of things. He's like, but it's pretty clear that you didn't have that self awareness. He's like, so how are you supposed to make the changes? If you didn't have it. And I and I was like, yeah. I get it. And and he's like, the difference comes when you get the awareness Now what are you gonna choose to do with it? You know, if you continue down that old path, well, then you kinda get what you That's

 

Speaker 0

 

that's on you. Yeah. Gotcha. But

 

Speaker 2

 

if you make the changes and and are also, not to be cliche or but gentle enough with yourself. You know, there's got there's it's a learning curve. Like, it's a rewiring in the brain. Especially with, like, opioids and stuff. That stuff.

 

Speaker 0

 

That sounds really You're up against something real serious. It's not You don't just say like, oh, I'm I'm gonna turn that off now. Yeah. And I think I can really, you know, relate in a lot of ways as far as, like, just having come from team team sports background to just that achievement and then the military as well. But, just that achievement and just, you know, I have high standards for myself. And I I think it's very easy for a lot of us who are entrepreneurs or achievers or just type a people who've, you know, have that drive and you have talked about that energy to really not allow for any mistakes to be acceptable. I mean, you know, and and that, you know, I think there's some level of that's good to push yourself, of course. Right? But But, so how so tactically speaking over the last, say, five years, how do you like, How does one get better at self awareness? What what do you do besides talk to a life coach? And I'm not dismissing that, but I'm

 

Speaker 2

 

saying No. No. No.

 

Speaker 0

 

How do we get better at that as individuals? Sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

That was just my that was just my like, I was looking to like, like, any, like, everything I do when I decide, like, oh, I'm gonna do it. I jump in. So Yeah. Yeah. I I was like, I'm gonna hire a coach and and he was wonderful. I did I did learn a whole lot. It def but that's not the only way to do anything. Sure. A year into my sobriety. I was I went to my first AA meeting. And I did that because I I was like, well, I don't understand why I was drinking the way that I was drinking and maybe if I go sit in a room with these people, I can learn something about myself. And of course, like the the arrogant douche that I could be at a time. Like, I walked into the room with no intention of doing the twelve steps or anything like that because in my mind, in my mind, I thought the twelve steps were a method to quitting. When in fact, it's a it's a it's a handbook It's a guidebook for living a good life. Again, it's not the only way to do things whatsoever. I'm not I don't push anything on people. I don't tell people not to drink or do do whatever you wanna do. Drinking and doing drugs is a lot of fun if you can do it a little bit. You know what I mean?

 

Speaker 0

 

But But you thought to your you said I already quit, so I don't need these twelve steps.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. And and very quickly, I realized, like, oh, this is not these steps are not about just quitting. And if you need enough, you know, personal growth or well, like self self wellness, self help books, whatever it is. Everybody's really kind of saying the same thing just in their own rhetoric. And so that the twelve steps, I mean, you can see that, you can see that in in, like I said, different self help books You can see it in the Bible. You can see I mean Sure. It all kind of follows, you know, the same the same guidelines. And and so there there must be some sort of truth to you know, and that's that's the way I look at it. But, so I I started going to to those meetings. I I read a lot of books I started meditating, really work on my presence. And and if I'm being completely honest, I've been terrible lately. So glad I'm I'm calling myself out. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

It changes. It changes now.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. But that that was an absolute game changer. Breathing, breathable. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

I've been doing that myself this this whole year. Actually, it's it's awesome. Amazing, mate. It's so good. Really, really good. I I completely I mean, you and I were athletes, you know, hardcore, whatever, like, tough guys or whatever, maybe. And I would have left. I mean, that just I never considered breath work. I mean, right now, it's more popular. But It just sounds ridiculous. If if you're going back to our college days, like, what are you talking about, man? Like, that's insane. I mean, I literally every I've barely missed any days this entire year, and it's not to say, you know, I don't need to pat on the back, but it's been it's really been a game changer. It's been, like, I I mean, it's ten minutes a day is what I do every morning. I do breath work, and it's been phenomenal just to kind of reset and just I mean, to physiological benefits and mental health benefits are huge. Totally. And

 

Speaker 2

 

and, you know, one of the one of the other things that I did was I've always been extremely, blessed to to be able to make friends and and, you know, and like Yeah. You're you're

 

Speaker 0

 

a very likable guy. Easy to Well, I

 

Speaker 2

 

appreciate you. So are you? But I I was I I really love people. Like, I truly truly have, have love for people. And and when I was using and drinking and everything, like, that was just it was so it was dissipating so much, and it was such a sad it was such a sad thing. But, so when I started making a lot of these changes in my life, One of the things that I had heard over and over was if you wanna know who you the type of person that you are, look at the five people you hang out with most.

 

Speaker 0

 

Mhmm. Yep.

 

Speaker 2

 

And I just I remember looking and I there's this is nothing against some of the people that I used to hang out with. Right. Because in in the same regard that they probably weren't serving my best interests I wasn't serving theirs either. You know what I mean? We were the same people just on different sides. So, So I really started becoming, you know, more cognizant of of who I was hanging out with, who I was listening to, you know, what I was putting into my into my body, in terms of

 

Speaker 0

 

I've

 

Speaker 2

 

always been fairly healthy in terms of outside of the drug.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. No. That might sound like ridiculous, you know, just based on the context that we've already gone over and Yeah. Presented here, but but I hear you. You can you can you can drink and even do drugs and generally eat eat a have a very healthy diet and exercise. Exactly.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. But, But I was, like, even cognizant of, like, the music I was listening to and the movies that I was watching, And again, I I like them all. I I like everything from, like, you know, gory horror to to a romantic comedy. I like everything. But I what I realized is, like, if I was going if I had a meeting with you later on in the day, then maybe I don't need to be listening to, the heaviest heavy metal, because my cortisol is gonna be through the deal, and it's not gonna serve me. So it started I just started paying attention. To if I do this, then this might happen. You know what I mean? Yeah. Absolutely.

 

Speaker 0

 

No. I've been just just briefly, I I've been, you know, my daughter my sixteen year old daughter doesn't wanna hear it from me, of course. But just who she follows on Instagram or who's what music she's listening to. Again, this I sound like my parents did back in the day. I have no issue with wrap or any other kind of music. But if if if it's like the heart, you just have to be, you know, just be aware of me because if ninety five percent of what she's listening to is is kind of like, you know, really hardcore rap. And again, no issue with rap by itself, but it just that becomes your thoughts. And and eventually your thoughts become your behavior, and that's, like, who you are, really. I mean, it's, like, Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

No. It's not. Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

It it's you're totally right. And and there's a time and place for everything. That's it. Right. Right. It's it's sort of like, you know, if you're if you're in finance or something and you have a they get to hear the term diversify your portfolio. It's kinda like will diversify your life in enough too, where you're not solely stuck in in one arena. Because if that's all you're listening to You become my op. We become my op. You know what I mean? And it's just like it's very we don't we're not malleable anymore. We're not we're not as open to to other things. And so

 

Speaker 0

 

That's cool.

 

Speaker 2

 

But, and, you know, so to this day, I still I go to, a number of AA meetings. Every week. One of the greatest things, that has come about from those meetings is is my is the ability to be of service to other people. So I'm able to help. I've been able to help a number a number of people in the rooms. And then, you know, even at the beginning of this year, I've never been a big social media guy. I don't, like, post my life up on, you know, on social media all the time.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

But you know, the service thing, the service thing is really important to me. And so at the beginning of the year, I made a commitment to myself that on the first of every month or or give or take a couple days. I would put up a post on Instagram and Facebook, basically, telling a little bit of my story through, you know, journey through addiction and everything. And I think that's how you

 

Speaker 0

 

That's that's why that's why we're here and that's why my listeners are getting the opportunity to to hear from you and We're trying to help put your your story out there to benefit other people, but that is why we're here. I wouldn't have I mean, you and I hadn't kept in touch, unfortunately, but I saw one of your posts. And I was like, I gotta I gotta reach out and connect with him. So good on you.

 

Speaker 2

 

And it it's good because it it It it's a it was an uncom it's still an an uncomfortable thing for me to do every month. But there that willingness to go into the uncomfortable to find and but be get comfortable and the uncomfortable. It's a really important thing, you know.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Absolutely.

 

Speaker 2

 

And it's it And and while it's it's done as an active service for others, we all benefit. Like, there's nobody benefits from it greater than than myself. I know that, you know. And so it's a win win. And, And I so so I started doing that, and it it was amazing, Jamie. Like, the number of people, you know, I talked to, like I said, I help people in the rooms every week. But the number of people that reached out from my past, have reached out based on these posts whether it be about themselves or somebody they love or whatever. It was it was remarkable. Like, people I hadn't spoken to in thirty years. And they're like, hey, I read this. I I, you know, could you maybe it's just it's been amazing. That's that's awesome.

 

Speaker 0

 

Really cool.

 

Speaker 2

 

And and life's just better now. You know, I'll tell you real quickly before we go. So you know, I came home during COVID. I I I needed it. I can't I called my parents and I said I'm gonna come home for six weeks and do a physical therapy protocol out of hospital for special surgery in New York on on my spine. I'm a an a an injury in the past. And, that that six week therapy protocol turned into six surgeries over two years. And I looked crippled. I I could hardly walk, and It it was just, you know, and it was a mental. It was screwing me mentally, of course. In addition to that, some of the doctors I went to, I I chose to go to certain doctors I handed over my savings, basically. Like, and that's okay. It's just money. I mean, it's it's You know, it's serious, but that's that was an incredible amount of stress it's been for the last couple of years. It's been crazy. And, basically losing I don't wanna say everything because it's not everything, but losing the financials. That's it. That's a serious thing at RA. But and not to sound cliche. It's also been one of the most beautiful times in my life. I produced this film black white upgrades in the middle of all this.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Which is very, very good, by the way. I've I've watched it. It's it's awesome. I highly recommend the listener to go check that out. Black white in the grays.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Amazon Prime video and

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Tell tell us it real quick. Tell talk about the the movie.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. So The movie revolves around an interracial couple on the verge of divorce, quarantining together during the pandemic and and black lives matter movement. So it's it's it's real. It's a comedy. And, no, it's it's very much not, but, it's it's a terrible pitch too. When I tell people that's, like, what that is, like, why do I wanna watch this movie? But I would implore you and encourage you, like, it it it is a film that you're not expecting that that at all. And and it's a film for everybody. It's it's there's no political biases in it. There is no agenda to it except to to create open discourse and and tolerance of one another and understanding, like, compromise Things that lack.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Those those are bad words apparently in in today's culture. No. My wife and I both really, really enjoyed it. So I definitely recommend Thank you.

 

Speaker 2

 

But, you know, so, so there's been all of this crazy stuff that have happened in the last couple years. With my health and with finances and all this kind of stuff. And in the middle of it, I got to produce the film that I'm most proud of the the piece that I'm absolutely most proud of as an actor and a producer. And also it's been an opportunity to put in practice so many of the things that I've been working on myself because I'm just going through the fire right now. That's the deal. I'm being tested. You know? And

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

Either I can recognize it for what it is as a test, and I can try to to to do my best in that situation no matter how it might be, or I can try to escape and I know where that's gonna lead to. Because I tried that. I tried that before. And

 

Speaker 0

 

It's interesting. I I was actually talking to my sister who was on my podcast.

 

Speaker 2

 

I remember that one. It was it was the first time I listened to it.

 

Speaker 0

 

I just saw her two days ago in Brooklyn. But, anyway, we were saying that, you know, I I I was saying basically, it would be awesome to have, you know, interview someone now when they're in adversity because all most of our guests, you know, they've and again, no one's ever done with adversity. We don't pretend pretend like, oh, I had a hard upbringing and now I have all my problems are gone. No one's life is like that, but it would be cool to interview someone who's kind of in the thick of it still. And then, you know, kind of in real time, we'll have to follow your your path to abundance.

 

Speaker 2

 

And we can talk again, for sure, because there's there's certainly. I mean, there's a lot of, like, there's some stuff going on. Yeah. Like you said, that's everybody. And my and and what I'm going through right now doesn't compare to somebody else's and and Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. But It is it's But it's real. It's real. Yeah. Oh,

 

Speaker 0

 

I I I have a few, before we get to my rapid fire questions, How do you do? Like, when you you talked about the five people, you know, that, that you hang out with, you're essentially the average of the five people that you associate with the the most How does someone become intentional about, you know, do you just say I I'm never speaking to you again? You know, if if you somebody who's not a good influence on you. How do you how do you navigate that from a practical standpoint? Because it sounds good, but how do you actually implement that saying, no. I'm I'm now gonna only allow these positive influences in my life, and I'm gonna be positive. How how does that work?

 

Speaker 2

 

I don't think I mean, maybe maybe some people just say, you know, look at look at their five friends and be like you're out I'm done. I don't know. Maybe that's how some people do it. For me, it wasn't it wasn't like that. It was more just like I started thinking about the person the person that I wanted to be and versus the person who I thought I was because that that was some very gray area there. I I in in as I got sober, it was scary how much, I was not the person I thought I was. And I wasn't the person that I thought other people thought I was. That makes you know. Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Makes

 

Speaker 2

 

sense. My my perception of what people thought of me was not accurate. So, I started thinking about what I wanted to be, who I wanted to be, what I wanted to do And I just started making gradual steps toward toward those, I guess, toward those goals. And those goals didn't, you know, include going out to the bar three times a week or didn't

 

Speaker 0

 

include

 

Speaker 2

 

you know what I mean? So in in just kind of taking an alternative path. It presented opportunity to to meet people who are more in line with, you know, where I was was headed. And I think it just kinda naturally happens. But again, the people from my party days and everything. I don't hate them. I still drive them along here. You know what I mean? And most of them have made, giant changes themselves. You know what I mean? So so, it's it's their wonderful people. Like I said, there it wasn't their fault. It went all. It was

 

Speaker 0

 

Well, I may and and, like, maybe it was good for them that you weren't around. I'm not I'm not putting you down, but it it sounds like it probably mutually beneficial.

 

Speaker 2

 

That's what I mean. It it's it's a it's a group effort. You know, it's it's a we thing. It's not it's not There's no blame to an individual.

 

Speaker 0

 

I just figured that your first call was gonna be to Jay Faruja and say I can't can't hang out with you anymore.

 

Speaker 2

 

No. No. So, Baruja is so funny, dude, and you know, Bruce. So, Feruja, Faruja is one of the guys when I met him. That was really an influence on me and not in the way that he never told me, you know, y'all to do this to to so you never told him.

 

Speaker 0

 

He wasn't he wasn't preachy about it. Right?

 

Speaker 2

 

No. I just started paying attention to the way he did did things and everything, and he kinda popped up at a time where I a lot of changes were beginning from.

 

Speaker 0

 

And to for the listener, it was a bit of an aside, but Jay Frugia is a big, fitness guy and and and Jay and Jay are are very good friends. So we'll have to on our follow-up episode, we'll have to dive into how you met him and all that. But, yeah, I I've he's a great person to follow for sure.

 

Speaker 2

 

For sure. So,

 

Speaker 0

 

anything else you wanna touch? I do have a bunch of some rapid fire questions, but, you know, is, as far as what you have going on right now professionally black light and and the grays is is a black white and the grays. Sorry.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yep. No. That's it.

 

Speaker 0

 

Is, that's the name

 

Speaker 2

 

of the grays is, like, black light. Black light. It's, like, it's,

 

Speaker 0

 

like, it's,

 

Speaker 2

 

like, it's, like, a new dorm room.

 

Speaker 0

 

It's funny. I knew that I knew it, and I I looked at my notes, and I wrote it down wrong in my in my notes. But,

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. That that movie's out right now. It's only for about a month, but it's doing great. It'd be, you know, check it out if, you know, leave a review. But, We had there's another so Casey Nelson, who who's was the the brains behind this, the the idea for Black White and the Grace, he and Marshall Thurman wrote it and directed it. K I KC has a number of other projects, but there's one called the music makers that I'm really trying put together right now and and and, some other ones as well. So Awesome. Yeah. Cool.

 

Speaker 0

 

Alright. Are you ready for some rapid fire questions before we get out of here? What is one thing that people misunderstand about you, Jay?

 

Speaker 2

 

Oh my gosh.

 

Speaker 0

 

It's a tough one. It's a tough one. I'm not gonna lie.

 

Speaker 2

 

One thing that people misunderstand about me is

 

Speaker 0

 

Come on. You're supposed to have quick reflexes. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2

 

Sorry. Okay. I guess, you know, sometimes, there's a lot more going on inside than smile that I often put on the outside.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. That's a good answer. If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would that be?

 

Speaker 2

 

Decide what's most important to you and put all your focus toward that.

 

Speaker 0

 

Love it. If you could have coffee with any historical figure, they could still be alive today. Who would that be?

 

Speaker 2

 

Oh my goodness. That's a good goal.

 

Speaker 0

 

You can say me. You can say the the lacrosse legend of Kenny's production.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. I'm really happy. No. Let me think about that one sec. Somebody that

 

Speaker 0

 

Doesn't have to be your only cup of coffee. Yeah. We can come back. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, Jay, what would you do with it?

 

Speaker 2

 

I would God, Jamie. Tell me, I would help a lot of people. I'll tell you that. I would help a lot of people. I would I would set, you know, there would be some allocation of funds to some people that I know could use it, but there would also be, I I would put that money toward toward toward I don't know whether like, I have a charity, you know, so may you know, it would go some of it through that, like, kind of building that out. I also would have a lot of fun. Yeah. I would, like, I would I would travel. I would, be adventurous. And, probably do some things that could probably land me in the surgical

 

Speaker 0

 

geez. We'll need, like, somebody to help, you know, help oversee the this, you know, direction of funds or something like that.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I yeah. I'll I'll call everybody.

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. There we go. She's think of the someone you you will Oh,

 

Speaker 2

 

the hold on a moment. Jackie Robinson, maybe.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay.

 

Speaker 2

 

What, what an amazing talk about, you know, going back to the thing I said a minute ago, like, take focus on the things that are important for, you know, put all the focus toward that and go and go forward. I mean, what a story of perseverance Yeah. And not only perseverance, but high performance in while going through the fire. I mean, we talked about that time going through going through a fire. That dude went through the fire, you know, from beginning to end, and still put up You know? Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. You're

 

Speaker 2

 

gonna be numbers. So that's, there's there's there's gotta be I I bet I could learn a lot from that guy.

 

Speaker 0

 

Absolutely. We all could. What is an occupation that you would try if you could just randomly switch to a another occupation?

 

Speaker 2

 

Military.

 

Speaker 0

 

Love it. Great answer. Alright. Jay Jablonski. What is one question that I have not asked you that you wish I had? We can save it for the follow-up interview.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah.

 

Speaker 0

 

But, just wanna make sure we've covered everything you want to.

 

Speaker 2

 

No. I I think so. And I I hope I mean, is there a question? Is there anything that that you wanted me to talk about? Or

 

Speaker 0

 

No. I mean, the only other question is where we can, where our listeners can find you online and reach out to you if Yeah. If, you know, if they need if they'd like to.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. Please. So I I'm on Facebook because it's just Jay Jablonski, though. I don't I don't really I I guess more of the one I use is Instagram. It's Jay Jablonsky and the number one. And, And, you know, our film is is at Black White in the Grace. We have Blackwhite in the Grace dot com, and then on Instagram, just Black White in the Grace, And, and yeah, that's that's and you can Awesome. Check me out on IMDB if you want. I don't know.

 

Speaker 0

 

No. I mean, it's, I really appreciate you not only taking the time, but just being so vulnerable, Jay. It's not, you know, It's probably easier to I I don't know, but, you know, it's one thing to put up a post, but it's, you know, it's hard to come on here and talk about talk about these things, and I appreciate you being real and being vulnerable for the benefit of the the listener and all of us. Yeah. Couple a couple of points. I, you know, just the self awareness thing was huge just being, you know, just for all of us to try to, you know, just get better at being self aware. And then just the through that is is in your case learning about fear and how big fear, what a big role that fear was playing in your life. And and, you know, again, we're all we're all a work in progress. And so Absolutely. I I there's you you dropped a lot of, actionable knowledge, and, you have a super interesting story. So Go ahead.

 

Speaker 2

 

Yeah. The one thing I would say is, and and I and this isn't reinventing the wheel or anything. No matter what situation that we find ourselves in. Whether it's brought about by our own pander, by somebody else's. There's never gonna be. We're the only Only we can pull ourselves out of it. You know what I mean? And that that's really hard because especially if you find yourself in a in a place that's that it wasn't your fault why you got there. Yeah. In my case, it it was my fault, hundred percent. I'm just saying, in other people's cases, though, it's it might not be. But Yeah. There's no lifeboat coming. Yeah. And it it what will happen is if you it's we we have to take the first steps to to to getting ourselves out of that situation. And as as we start making a little bit of progress, I think other people start recognizing and then they start, oh, well, maybe I can help you on this way. Maybe but we also have to open to asking for help.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sure. No. Absolutely. I think it's that's all those are all very good points. It's it's not that you're alone and you're gonna have to fix a hundred percent of everything. And you, you know, because, obviously, community, as you said earlier, community is huge with with all of this. But you do have to take ownership of your situation regardless of whether you put yourself there or not. You know, I think of the Chaco Willink wrote a book called Extreme ownership, and it's, you know, it's like he talks about whether he talks about it on his podcast all the time, whether you created this environment that you find yourself in or not doesn't matter. You're here. So to get out, you've gotta own it. And and take responsibility for for fixing it that would also include asking for help like you said. So speaking of book, before we wrap up, do you have any other book recommendations?

 

Speaker 2

 

The War of Art, Steven Pressfield?

 

Speaker 0

 

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I need to read that one.

 

Speaker 2

 

Amazing book. This one is, I think everybody says this, but the alchemist, you know, Paulo Pollo. It's it's just written in such a a way that's so it's just so relatable and it's really it's like, oh, this is it's like another guide god book for life. And the the the boy, the mold, the fox, and the horse. Do you know that book?

 

Speaker 0

 

No. Okay. I'm gonna

 

Speaker 2

 

I'm gonna send you that book. Okay. It's basically, it's like a picture book. Okay. And it's one of the most beautiful, beautiful books, like, that that kinda sums up life in in an in an amazing way.

 

Speaker 0

 

Okay. So you don't you don't think I can handle the other books with words. I I know. I just

 

Speaker 2

 

I don't wanna give you a give

 

Speaker 0

 

you a reference.

 

Speaker 2

 

I don't know how many times you got hidden in in the head. Yeah. Exactly. That's true.

 

Speaker 0

 

So alright. Well, Jay, this has been a lot of fun, man. This is really, again, I appreciate taking the time.

 

Speaker 2

 

Appreciate you reaching out, and and it's been great reconnecting thing, and and we're gonna stay in touch for sure.

 

Speaker 0

 

Sounds great. Thanks a lot, Jay. Appreciate it.

 

Speaker 2

 

Thanks, Jaime.

 

Speaker 0

 

And to the listener out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. And that is your time. Thanks everyone. Take care.

 

Speaker 3

 

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Speaker 1

 

Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. Your time. If you like the show, Please share it with your friends and fellow podcast listeners. One entrepreneur at a time, we can change the world. See you next time.