Feb. 21, 2023

Financial Abundance through Mortgage Note Investing with Jamie Bateman

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We’re all looking for ways to broaden our investments in a down market. We’d all like to keep profits trending upward despite a pending recession, so what are the options if adding new properties or more fix-and-flips opportunities are harder to find?

In this episode of Accelerated Real Estate Investor with Josh Cantwell, he’s being joined by the Founder of Labrador Lending, Jamie Bateman. Jamie became an active real estate investor in 2010 and specializes in buying and selling mortgage notes. In fact, he created a portfolio of forever passive income by acquiring over 75 mortgage notes with an excess balance of $5 million across 20 states. He’s also the host of the From Adversity to Abundance Podcast in which Josh Cantwell also graced the show a while back.

In this conversation, Jamie walks us through how he broke into this unique field, creates structures to share his profits (and risks) with passive investors, and what makes his strategy so different and allows him to scale and de-risk his portfolio.

If you’re curious about mortgage note investing, this episode is for you. And if you’d like to learn more from Jamie, simply head over tohttps://labradorlending.com/ebookto get a free copy of his e-book, The Power of Mortgage Note Investing!

Key Takeaways from Jamie Bateman:

-      What a mortgage note is and how to invest in them for yield?

-      Why investing in defaulted notes for value-add yield is a lot like doing a fix-and-flip?

-      How Jamie finds mortgage notes?

-      What makes investing in mortgage notes different from multifamily syndications?

-      How Jamie uses partial and hypothecated notes to scale and de-risk his investments?


Connect with Josh:

LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshcantwell/

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/josh.cantwell/

TWITTER: https://twitter.com/JoshCantwell

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/jcantwell1

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/c/SRECvideo


Connect with Jamie:

LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-bateman-5359a811/

TWITTER: https://twitter.com/batemanjames

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/batemanjames11/

WEBSITE: https://labradorlending.com/


Follow Labrador Lending

WEBSITE: https://labradorlending.com/

LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/71512077/

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/labradorlending

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/labradorlendingllc/

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChYrpCUlqFYLy4HngRrmU9Q


Investment Opportunity

Are you an accredited investor interested in monthly cash flow from an investment backed by physical real estate?

Our income fund--which is uncorrelated to publicly traded stocks and bonds--invests in first-lien mortgage notes diversified by geography, property value and borrower type. The fund aims to pay its investors monthly distributions at a preferred rate of return of 8% annually. And possibly the best part? The fund showcases a short, 12-month commitment.

Check it out today! https://investors.appfolioim.com/labradorlending/investor/public_opportunities/5


Speaker 2


 So Jimmy. Hey listen, welcome to accelerated investor. Thanks for jumping on the show. We're going to talk today about different types of investment strategies. Listen, I know most of you guys are dying for yields. You're dying for ways to make money stock markets, got you down, Tesla stocks, got you down, carvanha stock is down 95 percent. And one of my objectives is to bring investment strategies to my audience of different ways. You can make money both actively and passively, that's why I invited. Did Jamie Bateman on the show? Jamie's from Labrador lending, and we're going to talk about different ways to invest in notes. Jamie, thanks for jumping on the show.

Speaker 1


 Today. Yeah, absolutely. I really appreciate it. Josh, I know I had you on my show from adversity to abundance and I know this isn't a plug for my show, but it was one of my favorite episodes. Your story is fantastic. So that's why we reached out to you, and I am really happy to connect. So, thanks for having.

Speaker 2


 Me. Yeah, happy New Year, man. So Jimmy, let us talk about the specialty of investing in know. It's so, tell everybody tell us. What does that mean? What does that mean to invest in notes? Both mortgage notes? Defaulted notes? Active knows explain the strategy from a high level for.

Speaker 1


 Us perfect. So, yeah, I had a background in residential real estate investing. Just like a lot of people can relate to as far as buying a rental property, rehabbing at that kind of thing, and discovered notes and you know, and 2017 2018. So it's really been my focus since that's 0. What does it mean? Exactly, it means you're buying the debt. You're essentially becoming the bank. We, we focus on first lien mortgage notes, that's what we buy. We buy both performing and non-performing, and I am happy to go down any of the rabbit Trails you want to with regard to this stuff. So what it really means at a high level, is you're buying the debt, you're becoming the bank and sense becoming the lender even though my our company name is Labrador, Landing. We don't actually lend money out. We buy the debt. We put ourselves in the shoes of the lender, so, Quickly at a very high level. Buying a performing note is similar to buying a single family, rental property. And so you're buying that for cash flow, your and yield. You're not buying that for a value-add play. Like you might be accustomed to and, you know, in the multifamily space and that kind of thing. So a performing note, which means the borrower is making, their payments is akin to a rental property for cash flow. So we buy those kind of run the business, keep the lights on and kind of Thing. Secondly, the non-performing note is more like a Fix and Flip property. I am sure your audience is familiar with how to, you know what a Fix and Flip is a rehab and you buy a property that's distressed and sell that property once you have added value to it, hopefully. Well the note is the non-performing note is very similar to a Fix and Flip property. You're buying a distressed note, you're buying that debt and then you're adding value to it. And you're exiting one way or another. And there are many different exits, strategies, and many things we can talk about their butt. That's kind of how I like to give the high-level overview of mortgage note. Investing.

Speaker 2


 So money-making strategy, the way to make money with this just from a just a pure yield perspective. Yeah to secure these types of notes that are already performing and let us say for example it's a hundred fifty thousand dollar note on a performing asset and possibly buying that note for the existing yield on the paper or buying the note forgive my phone, if you can hear it going off in the background.

Speaker 1


 Work. Oh good.

Speaker 2


 Thought it was Donald was silenced, but buying the note for yield existing yield or also buying that no potential at a discount to increase that right? Explain that.

Speaker 1


 That's right. That's absolutely right. And almost I have seen notes purchased at par and meaning, not at a discount, we don't do that. We're always purchasing at a discount so at a very basic level. Purchasing at a discount is like you said. Let us say its principal balance on the loan is 150,000, and it's a performing note. Let us say it has an eight percent, but they call coupon rate. That's on the Note itself, the actual note document will buy that, and I am just making things up right now. But hypothetically will buy that at say, 100 for 125,000. And so that yield to us actually becomes greater than that 8% coupon rate because We're buying the note at a discount. And there are many reasons why the seller would might sell at a discount but notes almost always sell at some type of discount. So if you're buying a performing note for yield like we're talking about your you're typically, it's more of a safe play. And so, you're buying for yield, you're buying for cash flow, but one of the things that one of the advantages of note, investing is the collateral, right? So, as opposed to buying some other Type of investing in other asset classes that might produce a yield. This has the collateral which is the real estate itself. So, but short version, yes, we're absolutely buying at a discount when we purchase notes and that kind of protects us, you know, it's because we're not overpaying on the front.

Speaker 2


 End. Sure. And then, on a discounted basis for the notes that are defaulted, where you talked about the comparison value, add like kind of fix them Flip, or even a value out of Urban complex. You have you find that probably it even a significant more significant discount because it's not right for me, the bar was not paying but then you're essentially trying to rehab the note if you will. Yeah. Get it back to performing or there's lots of other things that you might do to it. So what might be the discount, the kind of range of discounts that someone refuse. Again, if the note was originally 150,000 it was performing at one time now with them No longer performing, you know, maybe for a year let us say or six months it's no longer performing at. How does that look as far as a discount that you would expect to get? What do you think would be a good deal? If it's something you were.

Speaker 1


 Buying absolutely, of course, it depends. And, you know, people don't like to hear it depends on because it doesn't sell well. And it's there are many factors here. Caveats, out of the way, a discounted note. First position note the purchase price has Flynn gone up in the last few years and across the market place in general, which I think you know we have all seen across real estate in. General deals are harder to come by. To answer your question more directly you can probably purchase a non-performing, first lien mortgage. You can expect to pay anywhere from say 50% to 75% of the principal balance and you get into other factors as well. There might be the payoff may be significantly higher than the principal balance, but High-level non-performing notes, you can expect to pay, maybe, 50% to 70% fix, 75% of the unpaid principal balance. Whereas a performing, note, might be more in the 85 to 100 percent somewhere in that range. So, that gives you a ballpark answer. At.

Speaker 2


 Least I was just doing the calculation here inside. So you take the Performing note, let us say it's a hundred fifty thousand dollars at 8%. If you two were done by that performing noted 125,000, right, which is about 80%, discount, give or.

Speaker 1


 Take? Yeah, might it might, if it's a really strong performer that'd be a great price if it's 8%, but yes and I threw that number out. So.

Speaker 2


 Thank you. My audience. The, the idea of the yield, right? So then the yield is going to drop by that coupon which is producing an 8% return off 150,000, but you buy it for 125. Now their return goes up to nine point six percent. Yeah, by the rules State backed by the collateral, think of that investment versus a It Bond or versus a Government Bond, or, you know, fixed annuity, or fixed life insurance. Those types of similar style Investments that are pretty much set it and forget it, right? The discount array worth 150 that you might be of trying to buy now from 50%, or 75% of the value. Then we have to do the work of there's.

Speaker 1


 Work. You got it.

Speaker 2


 The forbearance, the lost city do more work etcetera and to get that note back performing or And for clothes. Now you're looking at an exit strategy loan pay off. What's the real estate worth in order that if you have to rehab it or you have to take it back in rehab it? What's the upside potential of? That note really great stuff. So Jamie how would someone let us talk about someone who's an active investor like me and actively buying built buying properties. Buying notes versus somebody who's just a maybe just wants to stroke a check and W just get a yield. Explain the strategy, one versus the other. And how does somebody get involved finding notes to even get started doing this?

Speaker 1


 Absolutely. So and that's one realization I had when we kind of was prompted by redoing our website. If a couple years ago and you know this really does break down to active and passive investors. And that's not just true for notes only. But, you know, I think most people do end up determining that they want one or the other, I am both. You know, I do I am a Civ note, investor as well. I will personally invest in other note, investors mortgage, note funds, but if you decide, you want to be more of an active node, investor Yeah. Can it be considered passive compared to other type of active investing? Sure, you don't. I am not physically, it's not a physically demanding thing whatsoever, it can be done from anywhere and absolutely, from a computer, you know, and a telephone. I mean that's really all you need to be an active node investor. But once you start to scale and I know we're going to get into that a little bit, you there's work and so it becomes more active, right? And so to get into To the space. What I would recommend is hook up with someone who knows what they're doing. Obviously, you know, get a coach. Get a mentor and learn from someone who's done this before just like any other type of, you know, asset class. Don't just you're not on your own and within the note space, there are a lot of people who are very willing to share information and frankly there are a few people you need to look out for. So kind of it is somewhat of an unregulated space and so you We kind of protect our own. So what I would recommend is linked up with someone who knows what they're doing. Coaching training education, there are a lot of good programs out there. We personally do mentorship ourselves. So that's what we offer for the active node investor. And then we also have things for the passive investor as well.

Speaker 2


 How about an active note? Let us say I wanted to just start buying notes active, and I was looking to maybe I had some of my own capital. I have a group Of investors that have Capital but somebody's got to be the face of it, and join us and work. Where's were some good places to go to start looking for pools of notes or notes that are for sale?

Speaker 1


 So it's an extremely inefficient Market Place just like real estate can be right. So there's some work involved in this project 100% that's where the opportunity is. It's a relationship business. Just like I am sure your listeners very With within the commercial real estate and residential real estate side, it's a relationship business. There are platforms such as paper, stack.com notes, direct.com priori. Oh there's some different. I think note exchange.com different platforms where you can go and purchase notes. The problem comes in that you don't know who you're dealing with. You don't always know who the seller is, and that's very important. In this space. You do due diligence on the person, that your Acting with or working with is just as important as doing due diligence on the Note itself. So I have a list of notes sources, you know, we, but we're constantly refining that list and working that list and reaching out to people. It's been probably the biggest struggle in the space front. Quite frankly in the last few years is deal flow. There's plenty of still Capital out there frankly trying to find a home trying to find yield and you know, but deal flow. Been the biggest challenge, and then the third piece of running the business is the operations peace, which we can talk about. So it's hard to give a direct answer. It takes work, it's a relationship business, but we have developed relationships into space and once you know, once you have developed those relationships and you will close note, Sellers and note, Brokers will come back to you and say, hey, I have got this tape this list of notes. I know you close last time. I know you do. What you say you're going to do? Here's another opportunity, and we are frankly, starting to see an uptick Tick especially in the non performing space, which I think is going to continue in the next couple of years, at least.

Speaker 2


 Yeah. So if you are now a passive investor and let us say, you got a hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, a million bucks lying around in cash or self-directed IRA. Yep. And you're thinking, hey man, there's just not a lot of yield in the traditional market right now, the stock Bond mutual fund Market. It is just doing the traditional stuff, and I am really realizing. Wow, that's a very Channel Marketplace stocks bonds, mutual funds. Go up and down because of emotion, not necessarily because of performance, right? Sure, sudden Federal Reserve raises the interest rates. Now, Tesla stock is down. 70% that's not because the fundamentals of Tesla changed. Matter of fact, Tesla did more deliveries in 2022 than any previous year ever. They're getting, you know, Subsidiary or whatever I want to say free money from the government to build these electric vehicles, right? And so why would, why would a stock like that? Go down 70%, pure on a motion? Why do you think stocks that were just killing it during the covid era? Why would that be down? Why would Amazon be done? All purely based off of emotion? And so if you realize that market is built off of emotion, you want to kind of get away from that? Investing things that just make numerical logical sense. Yeah, multifamily node investing. Now, you get back to that space and you say, okay, I have got this money, I don't trust the market Jamie, what can you say? Or what? Can wear. Can you point our audience to, to just broke the check? Where can they go to learn? How to invest.

Speaker 1


 Passively? Absolutely. And we have a blog post, that covers so much of this if your audience wants to drill down into this, Topic of active versus passive. We have a very detailed blog post that goes through, its really a spectrum and so it really is there's a lot of ins between there's a lot of gray. There are many ways to be a passive note. Investor one is to do a partials or hypothec ation where you're essentially lending money or buying a subset of a set of payments on a whole note. So in other words, a paint the picture for you. I might buy the whole note myself right as an active node investor and I might say, hey, Josh, I know you have 50 Grand. You're trying to put to work as a passive investor. You can you know send me the 50 Grand and of course it's there're contracts and everything like that. It's not just a back of the napkin kind of thing, but I will send you over the borrower of payments. For the next three years will go to you. I will still actively manage this no doubt because I still have an interest in how the note does. So buying partials is a little more passive than being an active node, investor partials, or hypothec, an In your audience can Google those terms. Another way to do it is to be more of a joint venture. Now I know I am sure your audience is familiar with joint ventures with real estate. The same rules apply there with the Howey test and all that stuff we can you know skip over that. So both joint venture Partners technically need to be somewhat active but there may be more of a day-to-day operational. I may still be the operational partner in the joint venture and the then you might be the money partner. Just using the same two people as the, you know, for the scenario here. So joint ventures another way to be a little more passive. As a note investor, thirdly in, this is the final one really is the most passive way is to invest in a mortgage note fund. Many note funds are out there. Some have a three-year hold, they all have different, you know, structure. We have our income fund which is called the Integrity income fund. That are we aim to pay monthly? Lee distributions and we have only a 12-month lockup. So, a mortgage note fund is really the most passive way you can go. It's similar to a multi-family syndication, but a couple of key. Differences are your typically the fund itself will own anywhere from maybe 10 to 50 notes within the fund. So you're spreading your risk across many different assets as opposed to your typical multifamily syndication, which is often correct me if I am wrong. Josh, but 11 project, right? So, So it could go really well in five to seven years. Went on your exit, you know, and it probably has more potential for upside frankly. But you know, with a mortgage note fund, you're spreading your risk across many states, many borrowers, many assets and so it's just a different plate. Depends? What you're looking for.

Speaker 2


 Yeah, and that mortgage note fund, I am sure there're different structures. Jamie. So help us understand those typically, like, you have one that focuses were. It's Its main strategy is to invest in performing notes versus. Maybe a different fund is specifically set up to invest into faulted notes. Sometimes maybe you have one fund that kind of does. Both. Yeah and typically, write different checks for each were they might think hey, you know, I don't want to be too risky. Maybe I want to write most of my check 75, 80 percent of my money. I want to put that in a performing note fund and then got it, 20 25, 30 percent of my money. I want to put into To a defaulted note fund where there might be some more risk, it's some more work but there might be some home runs in there.

Speaker 1


 Tell us about that. It is exactly right. And we have both, we are not currently raising capital for our non-performing note fund but I can speak to both. Just from a personal standpoint of managing, both funds are non-performing. Note fund has a three-year hold and the real reason for that, meaning you're committing to putting your money into the fund for three years. The reason for that really is we try to exit most of the Notes that are non performing within 18 months. It could be six months, it could be three years, Frank, Frankly, but we try to turn that money twice, and so we try to exit within 18 months and put that money back to working and get all your Capital. Back in three years. Are performing note fund, which is currently available for investment is exactly what you said? We're targeting. We're at purchase. We're targeting more of a 12 to 15 percent. Yield to, the Bring Em to the fun. And now these notes do have some type of issue. Typically, may be re performing there may be some paperwork, we need to clean up something. We know there's a little bit, they called scratch and dent, there may be some type of issue with it but generally it's performing a fairly strong pay history in the last 12 to 18 months will buy that at 12 to 15 percent and are performing. Note fund pays out an eight percent yield at aims to do that. So you know there's we don't get as much of a management. The management fee is smaller there because there's not as much work for us from an asset management standpoint. Exactly. I mean you nailed it. So we do have some performing notes in our non-performing note fund because we want to make sure we have that cash flow to keep the fund running, of course, and plenty of reserves in each, but they're absolutely different plays. And we have investors who invest in both like you said, or we have investors who say, hey I am not interested in this monthly yield because I don't need the cash flow each month. Hitting my IRA, why I want to wait till you open up your next non-performing fund because I want that upside. So it's just a different goal for different people depending on your circumstances.

Speaker 2


 Folks for different folks. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, maybe, so we talked about how investors could get started. How did you get started? How did you get going with this? Yeah. What about your intro into note investing? Was it a pivot from the Down Show and maybe there was just a defaulted, Note versus a defaulted deal, tell us about what started and how you found out about it?

Speaker 1


 Yeah so years ago I was working at a Title company and mortgage note, mortgage lender, I should say more, just mortgage broker to be specific. So I did have experienced their, my father was a real estate agent, kind of grew up in the residential space. And so, my wife and I have been active residential single-family rental Real Estate Investors since 2010. And so that was you know, after doing several rehabs and essentially the Burr method and keeping those properties for our own Portfolio. You know you can call it boredom or shiny object syndrome or whatever but it's like, okay we bought six or seven Townhomes which were almost identical and you know, it's all right, I got this. All right now what kind of thing, so I did get a little bit. Alright what else is there to wanting to add to my own? You know tool belt? I used to think of notes getting into notes, as more of a the front on the front end, but I actually think of it more now is kind of just a cycle. And so now I have to answer your In 2017 2018 it's just started looking into different strategy strategies within the residential space. I was looking at tax lien investing. I was looking at mortgage note investing and there's a thread on BiggerPockets that talks about both just started. Researching and reaching out to people one at a different strategy to invest in different asset class. And wanted it, I wanted to be able to do something from my home to be honest with you. So got into notes started out as it with A joint venture with a who with someone whose now a business partner of mine, which is a fun story that and then I, and then I scaled. So yeah, several different reasons why I got into notes. I probably started off a little to passively quite frankly and I, but we can talk about that later.

Speaker 2


 Sure. And tell us about how you scaled it? Like what how do you go from? Just learning about it to building up a fund and having many millions of dollars worth of notes. Passive investors. And yeah, how does that look? And how did you scale it? What did you learn along the way? What worked and what didn't when you started scaling?

Speaker 1


 Yeah, I mean, it's a fascinating topic. And I think for me and I think for most people, quite frankly, you learn by doing and watching others. I mean, why reinvent the wheel? If it's working for other people I figured out that, you know, I don't need to reinvent the way I don't need to be the next Tesla and so, So are we tweaking things? Or we always kind of trying to get better, of course right. And we're never satisfied or, you know, complacent. But I started using my own Capital which I do recommend others do as well. I don't necessarily use, you will see people getting trained in mortgage. Note investing to go immediately seek out lenders, and they have never actually. In other words, lending Partners to go buy a note, and they have never actually purchased a note. I don't recommend that. I do not recommend taking on other people's money. You don't know what you're doing. So I started to use my own Capital to by performing, those just to kind of get a transaction done. Okay. Now I have purchased a note now I know how to board that note where the loan. Servicer for example, you know, so over the next several years I just kept scaling and ways. I did that were joint ventures. I would be the active partner because you know, no matter what. At some point you do need to take on other people's money. I don't care who you are, if you want to scale, Dale you're going to run out of your own capital or at least the capital that you're willing to put toward this project. And, so I started doing joint ventures and then I started selling partials to take use other people's money to put that to work for those more passive investors and I would. So as a quick example, I buy a note myself with my own capital for say fifty thousand dollars and I might sell a partial for a set yield, which might be say Percent to the patmore passive investor, they might pay me 20 thousand dollars for those next that stream of income and I can take that twenty thousand dollars. Maybe another twenty thousand dollars from another partial and go buy another whole note for my own business, that's another way to scale. So I did joint ventures, I sold probably in 2025 individual, partial deals at the time. And from a bookkeeping standpoint, it was quite a bit to take on. So we have Since then determine that the fund model, just makes a lot more sense. And so that's why we have moved into the fund really fund. Only direction is I still have my own portfolio, but I am mostly focused on our to no.

Speaker 2


 Funds. Yeah, but love it. So our experience in this is comes from a different angle but very similar you know when I was flipping tons of properties coming out of the Great Recession and buying foreclosures was easy. I mean they were all over, and he met websites, the Freddie Mac websites, the mlas, you know? HUD homes, all of that stuff. And then we got to the point where, like, okay, we don't want to do any more rehabs right now, like we had 15 going on in any one time, that was a lot. Yeah, but we're really, really skilled at raising money. So we decided to throw all that money into a fund, and then we actually started a private lending company, or we would actually make private lender loans. And then the fund would actually basically table fund, the loan, where we would make the loan to an investor. We would love And the money out at 65 to 70% of its after repaired stabilized value, both on residential and Commercial. And the fund would essentially table fund the deal. And our lending company would get a point, or half a point, or a point and a half or whatever. So it made fee for making the loan and then all the rest of the yield went back into the fund and the fund. Then had an operation partnership structure between us as the fund manager. And servicer, we service our own loans and then all of Our limited partners, right? And they would get an eight percent preferred return. Plus 50% was a 50-50 split thereafter. They get a Tweed, get to. So 8% to the passive investor, we got two percent for our management fee and then 50/50 thereafter sort of anything over 10 percent. We would split 50/50, and we love that business. So we actually ran that business all the way, right up until the time that covid hit and when covid hit we had, can we were kind of pregnant two ways. We were very Evolved in multifamily apartments, and we owned like 2,500 units. And we also ran this private lending and fun structure. As you remember, Jamie Armand, ever, forget Friday, the 13th, March 13th covid, basically swarmed the US and the NBA shut down Major League Baseball, shut down. All this stuff. Shut down. We essentially stopped lending and essentially stopped putting deals in the fund because we weren't lending anymore. And then we never reopened, we just decided, eventually let it wind down, and I am close. I am just curious because you have been doing this as 2018. How did it impact your note investing business?

Speaker 1


 Yeah, quite a so, and I remember you saying on my show that you have decided to focus on what you're very good at, which was Raising capital, and I think that's a key, you know, piece of advice, but it really covid really didn't have a major impact on us. Frankly, other than to say, We were able to kind of focus on there was a period of maybe two to four months when there was essentially a standstill between buyers and sellers. The X transactions were down, the expectations were very different between buyers and sellers. So we were still buying into that period, but it was slower overall looking back over the last few years since 2020. It really, you know, I don't think covid had a major impact because we are not on the very front end like you were with lending, we're buying notes that may have been originated five ten years ago, maybe two years ago but so it really didn't have a major impact on its it gave us more time to on a personal level to kind of focus on fine-tuning our operations and making sure we're hiring the right people and you know there's always room for improvement within any business, right? So I and it actually to be a good period to focus on my business and kind of tighten things up a little bit. Yeah. Deal flow has been slow but I don't think that was from covid.

Speaker 2


 Yeah. So when we, we had a bunch of notes that we sold off out of that fund, we end up having buyers attorneys different banks, other private investors. We didn't sell off a lot of loans, but we had 175 180 in Fund at one time, it was about 40 million dollars of value, and we sold some off. So, if someone like you would you or your members, your students, would you guys be a buyer of some of those types of loans that we might have had back in the day? Is that what it says is that you guys?

Speaker 1


 Would absolutely. That's a very good point is you want to pay attention to note funds or funds like yours where? Yeah. When it when the fun clothes closes that fun needs liquidate they need to send their money back. To their investors. So it's absolutely a buying opportunity. So 100% looking one of the main sources of deals for us is a bigger note fund, right? And so, I trickle down, right? I am not buying from Bank of America directly, right? So absolutely, yes, that's a great source of deals for.

Speaker 2


 Sure. Not at the love it. Now Jimmy, I know you guys share a lot of advice on your blog. Labrador learning-dot-com, you can go to that, I am actually looking You out of here on my other screen. There's lots of great articles, how to use infinite banking to fund your note business, how to passively invest in notes, five tools to help note investors how to hypothecated versus Note partials. There's lots of different kind of advice that you share on your website and your blog. If you could take maybe one or two of all the Articles you have written pieces of advice that you pass along to your members and your students, what are some of those things that you could share with us today? What's some advice, Is that you would give along that you things that you have learned along your overall, real estate journey. And also specifically in your note, investing Journey.

Speaker 1


 Yeah, I think the two things that jump out to me are one is we did a blog post a while back. That was real estate versus notes. And when I say real estate, I really mean residential rental property. Investing. And then versus Residential Mortgage note investing, what are the key differences? Everything has pros and cons. So there's one article that speaks specifically to that, and we kind of did it in a fun way where it's a boxing match. Chin, you know, notes win, one round and then rental properties when the next round. And so you will have to check out the blog post to see who wins the second blog article that comes to mind is the passive versus acting the spectrum of passive and active node investing. And really what it boils down to is that active, investors can work with passive investors, in many different capacities, like we already talked about, and so, but you need to kind of know yourself and your own goals. I have people that reach out to me and say should I do notes? Should I do short-term rentals? Should I don't know, I don't even know you he like, I don't know. How would, I know, you know, it depends, I don't know what your situation is. I don't, we need to kind of and that's why I actually prefer to do mentorship one-on-one still because really kind of want to understand the situation first. But the third thing, I will just throw out there. As we have an e-book where we and I know ebooks are everywhere, and they're free. And you know, they're easy to discount. Ours is 74 Pages. It compiles. Really all of the blog post that we wrote and it very, very many walks you through all of this stuff. So I would recommend your listener if they really just want to know. In fact, I started before I will Mentor someone they need to read the e-book first and have some questions from it and just to know that they're serious and maybe notes are not for them. Right. That's fine. Right? But our ebook is chock-full of information.

Speaker 2


 Yeah, that's like I am seeing it here on my other screen again. Labrador lending.com ebook, that ebook is called the power of mortgage. Note investing obviously Jamie's the author 74 pages. That sounds like it's really.

Speaker 1


 It's probably should have been five or six ebooks. We just threw it together in one. One deal and send it out. You know, it's free. So try to offer some value.

Speaker 2


 Upfront. Yeah absolutely. So for my audience you know go ahead and download that Labrador lynda.com slash a book do on your first name. Last name and email get your copy for free. Check that out, Jimmy. Any other places that you would recommend for our audience to engage with you or anything else to check out?

Speaker 1


 If you don't mind about your investing? I appreciate that very quickly. If you do have an if you need a loan servicer by Phi L s.com it's by Phi Loan Servicing its by investors for investors we have a Loan Servicing Company that's a different arm of what we have going on here. I also have a podcast that Josh you were on which was one of the best episodes we have had it's called from adversity to Abundance and I would recommend and encourage your listener base to check that out. It's a little less in the Weeds on investing, and it's a more human focused, you know, podcast, but it's somewhat of a passion project for me, I really enjoy doing it. And so those are Labrador lending.com by Phi L s.com, and from adversity to abundance podcast. Those are three places. I would Point your listeners to.

Speaker 2


 Fantastic stuff. Jamie, listen to all my audience, go engage in those three resources and Jamie. Thanks so much for joining us today on Excel last.

Speaker 1


 Thanks a lot. Josh, I really appreciate the time.

Speaker 2


 Time out. Great. Great job, man. That was for.

Speaker 1


 Had to cough there for a while.

Speaker 2


 Call for 30 minutes, and it's just sitting back there.

Speaker 1


 It was like a. I am like, yes. So was that. All right. Good to go.

Speaker 2


 It's great. That was great. Awesome. I am going to do your intro outro. I will get that knocked out now. We because the holiday were not that far booked out, showed this is to be released like within the next three to four weeks.

Speaker 1


 Okay. Yeah, I got I fell behind myself and you get that, I started my show, probably too early, you know, because you're excited, and I probably should have had more of a backlog of my own guests, you know? So I have gotten to the point where it's like, oh my gosh, I need some for next week. This isn't good, you know, so I get it.

Speaker 2


 I have been there in jars and nuts. Like I will get him.

Speaker 1


 Solo episode real quick. Okay, so now that was great. Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah and Thing. If there's any way we can help, if you ever need a loan, servicer, that is something we're trying to. I am trying to push a little bit. So if there's any way I can help, let me know. I appreciate it. Sure will.

Speaker 2


 I am sure will definitely stay in touch. And like I said, we will get you all the collateral for this one. It gets ready to get released.

Speaker 1


 Thanks a lot, Josh, I appreciate it. Alright, take care. Bye.

Speaker 2


 Okay, here's the intro. Three, two one. So hey there, welcome back to accelerate investor. I am your host, Josh, and I am excited to be with you today. Today, we're going to talk about mortgage note, investing my guest is the founder of Labrador lending. His name is Jamie Bateman. Jamie has been an active real estate investor since 2010 over the last five years, since he really started to focus on buying and selling mortgage notes. He's an acquired over 75 more, good notes with an excess balance of over five million dollars across over 20 states that creates forever passive income for him. He has a lot of hands-on experience, overseeing construction projects. And so we're going to talk today about number one, how to invest in performing mortgage notes for yield. Okay, obviously everybody's struggling to find yield today because of this pending recession stock. It's down. So, let us find ways to invest for yield, that's number one. Number two, how to invest in, defaulted notes, right? For value-add yield, which Jamie actually compares to doing a Fix and Flip property. He talks in kind of Compares investing in defaulted notes, to fix and flips. Number 3, where to find these notes? Number four, what's the difference between a mortgage note, fun? Fund and a multi-family syndication. We're also going to talk a little bit more about what's called partial notes and hypothecated notes. That is a way for an active note, investor to share the ownership and the profit with a passive investor. We're going to talk about all of those things today. On accelerated investor with myself and Jamie Bateman the CEO and founder of Labrador lending. Here we go. Here's the exit 321. Well listen guys I hope you really enjoyed that episode with Jamie from Labrador lending. I appreciate all of you guys engaging in the show. I am always so grateful thankful honored honestly that so many thousands and a thousand people. Listen to this show and all of the ratings and hundreds of reviews that we have gotten. If you feel compelled and you enjoyed this show, please leave us a five star rating, open up your phone. Open up Spotify or iTunes or iHeart Radio, wherever you're listening to your podcast. Listen to that, hit the Subscribe button and of course leave us a five star rating and the review as helpful as well, because that's where I get the review of understand. What are we doing? Well, what do we not doing well? What would you like to hear more of what kind of guest do you want to hear more of? Do you want to hear more guests? Podcasts are so low castes, right? Those reviews are critical to us. Put it together. High-quality show that our audience really loves and can engage with, and listen to every single week. So, thank you so much for that. Also, don't forget about our upcoming multifamily events, right? How to retire early with forever. Passive income. You're going to learn that at Forever passive income live this year, we're doing Live Events. The virtual Live Events are you can get tickets for a few hundred bucks at Forever passive. Income.com There you can buy a ticket engage with us online. There you can buy a ticket engage with us online. You can learn from home, you don't have to travel and you can learn my best of content over three days and also learn if you feel compelled to engage and join our coaching and Mastermind program, there you can apply a Josh Cantwell. You can learn from home, you don't have to travel and you can learn my best of content over three days and also learn if you feel compelled to engage and join our coaching and Mastermind program, there you can apply a Josh Cantwell. Coaching.com, thank you so much for being with us today, and we will talk to you next time. Coaching.com, thank you so much for being with us today, and we will talk to you next time. Take care. Take care.