Losing $50K to Winning Big: Craig Eppler on Private Lending, Rental Portfolios, and Launching a Debt Fund

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Speaker 0: Today, we sit down with Craig Epler of Epler Capital Funds.

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Speaker 0: Craig has a pretty relatable story,

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Speaker 0: and

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Speaker 0: he's really grown in the last several years in real estate investing.

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Speaker 0: Interestingly, he comes from a financial services background.

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Speaker 0: He worked at Vanguard and then another financial firm.

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Speaker 0: Started out as an analyst, moved up the ranks,

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Speaker 0: and got exposed to alternative investing, you know, private market

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Speaker 0: investments outside of stocks and bonds,

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Speaker 0: and has really moved over to focus on on that side

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Speaker 0: of things.

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Speaker 0: He runs a private credit fund, a private debt fund where they,

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Speaker 0: take on investor capital providing consistent monthly income,

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Speaker 0: and he

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Speaker 0: invests inside of his fund, in different, into different

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Speaker 0: businesses, including real estate, HVAC companies, etcetera.

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Speaker 0: We we dive into a deal where he lost where, fifty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 0: and, we talk about the lessons he's learned from that.

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Speaker 0: And we provide lessons for you so that you don't make

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Speaker 0: that a similar mistake.

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Speaker 0: Craig also owns, I believe it's fifty nine rental properties at this point,

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Speaker 0: almost sixty rentals, which is really impressive

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Speaker 0: given the amount of time he's dedicated to this.

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Speaker 0: His fund has reached the ten million dollar mark as well

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Speaker 0: and has only been in operation for about three and a half years.

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Speaker 0: So I think you're gonna get a lot of practical value and some inspiration

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Speaker 0: from this this episode.

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Speaker 0: I hope you enjoy this episode with Craig Epler.

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Speaker 0: Thanks for tuning in.

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Speaker 1: From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and

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Speaker 1: seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide

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Speaker 1: for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness,

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Speaker 1: and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate.

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Speaker 1: With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and

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Speaker 1: a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and

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Speaker 1: multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth

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Speaker 1: of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode.

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Speaker 1: Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders

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Speaker 1: and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners

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Speaker 1: will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges

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Speaker 1: and build lasting financial success.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity

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Speaker 1: to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities

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Speaker 1: and achieving financial freedom.

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Speaker 0: Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast.

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Speaker 0: I am your host, Jamie Bateman.

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Speaker 0: And today, we have with us Craig Epler.

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Speaker 0: Craig is the founder and CEO of Epler Capital Funds.

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Speaker 0: Craig, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 0: How are you doing today?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well, Jamie.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 0: Absolutely.

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Speaker 0: It's gonna be a fun and practical conversation, and we're gonna learn a little

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Speaker 0: bit about some, through,

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Speaker 0: learn about what you've learned through some adversity,

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Speaker 0: over the years and talk about, your current fund and

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Speaker 0: what you have going on today.

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Speaker 0: I know you have a good amount of experience in the financial world as

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Speaker 0: as well as, you've got a a lot of rental properties,

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Speaker 0: and then you manage a debt fund, we're gonna get more into.

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Speaker 0: But for the listener who may be unfamiliar with you, I know you're in

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Speaker 0: the Philadelphia area.

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Speaker 0: Tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you're up

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Speaker 0: to today and some of the abundance that you're living in right now.

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 2: Again, thanks again, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Today, I currently own a rental portfolio of

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Speaker 2: fifty nine units to be exact,

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Speaker 2: across, Central Pennsylvania and some in the local Philadelphia market

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Speaker 2: here.

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Speaker 2: And my main job is running a private debt fund.

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Speaker 2: We just crossed over the ten million dollar mark as of the end of

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Speaker 2: the month.

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Speaker 2: So that's a big milestone for us after starting three years ago.

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Speaker 2: Along with that debt fund, we have some other side projects that include a

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Speaker 2: medical office space, some different land deals.

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Speaker 2: But but my main job right now is finding good deals to lend

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Speaker 2: money to, and obviously raising that capital to find those deals.

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Speaker 0: That's awesome.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: That's a that's a lot.

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Speaker 0: That's really good.

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Speaker 0: There's a lot I I would love to dive into.

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Speaker 0: It sounds like you've recently added to your rental portfolio.

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Speaker 0: I know your primary focus is your debt fund.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: But, let's we'll we'll we'll just that'll be a little teaser, but, let's

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Speaker 0: jump back into your backstory.

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Speaker 0: I know,

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Speaker 0: not everything not every deal you've you've done has been amazing,

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Speaker 0: and I think if you're in in the real real estate investing space long

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Speaker 0: enough, you're gonna lose some money on a deal.

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Speaker 0: So I don't think you're alone in that.

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Speaker 0: But

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Speaker 0: before we get to that, I think you you used to work in the

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Speaker 0: financial sector.

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Speaker 0: Talk to us about your background and and kind of, you know, maybe getting

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Speaker 0: out of college, how things went from there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think I think your point about if you've been investing long enough, you're

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Speaker 2: about to lose money.

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Speaker 2: So I think if you can get that out of the way and and

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Speaker 2: kinda get your mindset right there, then that's that's more helpful.

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Speaker 2: It still doesn't help when it actually happens.

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Speaker 2: It still it still hurts.

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Speaker 2: But, yeah, I think I think that's super important.

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Speaker 2: And, honestly, if someone came to me and said, hey.

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Speaker 2: I have this awesome fun and I've never lost money.

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Speaker 2: I would question whether

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Speaker 0: Sure.

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Speaker 2: Whether they've learned anything, during during the career.

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Speaker 2: But, anyway,

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Speaker 2: yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I I went to your college, small school out in central Pennsylvania, did

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Speaker 2: cross country and track there, which frankly, I think helped a lot in terms

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Speaker 2: of discipline and investing and Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The two are very closely correlated, I think.

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Speaker 2: Mhmm.

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Speaker 2: But I got a job offer.

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Speaker 2: I did a bunch of interest in college.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea what I want to do.

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Speaker 2: Mhmm.

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Speaker 2: But my final internship was at Vanguard, the large asset management

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Speaker 2: company in in the Atlanta Philly suburbs.

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Speaker 2: I was a derivatives trader there.

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Speaker 2: So I so I worked there for about two years.

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Speaker 2: Being a trader at a large company, like, that sounds super sexy.

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Speaker 2: Mhmm.

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Speaker 2: But in in reality, after the first few weeks of moving a lot of

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Speaker 2: money around, you you realize that it was a very kind of simple strategy

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Speaker 2: because, I mean, it's a great firm.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna talk crap on Vanguard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But they, you know, they you know, what what we were doing was very

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Speaker 2: much matched in the, index since there wasn't a lot of strategy involved with

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Speaker 2: what my job was.

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Speaker 2: So Mhmm.

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Speaker 2: I really wanted to get more on the strategy side and kinda understand how

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Speaker 2: the how the larger investment world works.

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Speaker 2: So I moved over to a investment advisory firm also in the, like, in

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia area.

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Speaker 2: And I said the Philadelphia area because I was living in downtown Philly and

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Speaker 2: coming out to Malvern.

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Speaker 2: I knew anyone who's, kinda local to my area knows that that's not far

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Speaker 2: mileage wise, but during rush hour traffic, it takes about an hour, to get

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Speaker 2: out there, which is pretty brutal.

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Speaker 2: So during that time, I started listening to a bunch of real estate podcasts

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Investing podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And, I'm sure we can all go back to the, like, bigger pockets days

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Speaker 2: and and a lot of, inspiration came from that.

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Speaker 2: So Yeah.

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Speaker 0: I just had a similar thing.

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Speaker 0: I I I can totally relate to that.

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Speaker 0: I did a similar thing at an hour forty five minutes to an hour

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Speaker 0: and fifteen minute drive each way for years, and that's what I

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Speaker 0: did.

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Speaker 0: So, eventually, I started listening to podcasts, mostly BiggerPockets at the time,

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Speaker 0: and just started my mindset and got a lot more active in real estate

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Speaker 0: investing.

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Speaker 0: So totally Exactly.

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Speaker 0: Totally empathize with that.

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Speaker 0: So, alright.

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Speaker 0: So what happened during that period for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I listen to these podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I was like, you know what?

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Speaker 2: These guys I mean, these guys know what they're doing, but they don't seem

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Speaker 2: like brain surgeons to figure this stuff out.

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 2: Like, I can figure this out.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 2: So my so my first step was I was tired of my commute.

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Speaker 2: I had just gotten this racist new job.

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Speaker 2: I was kinda feeling myself.

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Speaker 2: I was a younger guy.

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Speaker 2: So I bought a house,

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Speaker 2: with the intent to live right next to where I work.

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Speaker 2: So I bought a house in Malvern, which is right down the street.

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Speaker 2: And right away, I was like, wow.

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Speaker 2: This mortgage is considerably more at the time.

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Speaker 2: I'm not most is in case in more of them.

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Speaker 2: This mortgage is way more than my rent was when I was in downtown

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Speaker 2: Philly.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, you know, I have a three bedroom townhouse.

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Speaker 2: Why don't I rent these other two bedrooms out?

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Speaker 2: So I did that.

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Speaker 2: At the time, my mortgage, I believe, was twenty one hundred including HOA.

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Speaker 2: And I rented each of the rooms out for, eight hundred bucks each,

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Speaker 2: all in.

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Speaker 2: So I know it's not a true house hack, but I was living on

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Speaker 2: five hundred bucks a month, which was a great way to stack cash.

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Speaker 2: That was kinda my first entree into, real estate.

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Speaker 2: Then from there, I kinda I I kinda get the courage to buy my

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Speaker 2: first rental, out in Pottstown, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: First, like, three months, everything that digger on or everything that could go wrong

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Speaker 2: digger on with that one.

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Speaker 2: Mhmm.

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Speaker 2: Looking back, it's kinda comical, the stuff that I stressed over then versus now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Kinda lick my wounds and then start buying more real so I did that

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Speaker 2: in twenty in twenty nineteen and didn't buy any more real estate for another

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Speaker 2: couple years where I really kinda load put it up at that point.

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Speaker 2: So I'll stop there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I know there was a lot of information.

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Speaker 0: It's funny because I I, also in our my first, like I I had

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Speaker 0: a rental in twenty ten.

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Speaker 0: It was a condo, but that one was super passive.

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Speaker 0: But after I decided to get really active a lot more active in the

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Speaker 0: real estate investing space, Our first tenant was

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Speaker 0: terrible.

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Speaker 0: She was an attorney.

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Speaker 0: She never really moved in, and she started threatening to sue us.

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Speaker 0: She was threatening to sue.

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Speaker 0: She lawyered up.

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Speaker 0: She made up all these claims that there were airborne contaminants and all this

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Speaker 0: stuff, which was not true at all.

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Speaker 0: This was in a nice area of, Lock Raven Village up in Baltimore

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Speaker 0: County.

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Speaker 0: But, anyway, it was I was so stressed, so

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Speaker 0: scared, so stressed.

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Speaker 0: And now I don't I don't think that would phase me.

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Speaker 0: I'd be like, okay.

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Speaker 0: Whatever.

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Speaker 0: And, you know, just move on.

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Speaker 0: But, anyway, it's funny you say that because we yeah.

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Speaker 0: We had a lot of things go wrong with that, and it it it

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Speaker 0: was very stressful.

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Speaker 0: But, it's not to say it wasn't real and I shouldn't take it seriously.

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Speaker 0: But once you've once you've been through some things, it's like, okay.

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Speaker 0: It's just par for the course

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Speaker 2: of the office.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 0: So so I guess at that time, how many rentals

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Speaker 0: did you say you had?

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Speaker 0: That was just your first

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Speaker 2: So this is twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: I I just had the first one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So so for the first three months, the tenant moved out.

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Speaker 2: It was during the winter, so it was tough to refill.

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Speaker 2: I had to do a turn.

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Speaker 2: And like this at the time, it's all out of my, like, w two

00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:23.640
Speaker 2: income.

00:10:23.640 --> 00:10:25.720
Speaker 2: So I was like, these are, like, real real hits.

00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:26.120
Speaker 0: I didn't have

00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:27.880
Speaker 2: a huge cash reserve at the time.

00:10:27.880 --> 00:10:28.360
Speaker 2: Right.

00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:32.015
Speaker 2: So I was really feel this, you know, paying two mortgages and all the

00:10:32.015 --> 00:10:32.895
Speaker 2: other things that go on.

00:10:32.895 --> 00:10:36.175
Speaker 2: So licked my wounds a little bit there.

00:10:36.175 --> 00:10:40.015
Speaker 2: And then I don't know what what spurred the next moment, but,

00:10:40.015 --> 00:10:41.295
Speaker 2: I decided, you know what?

00:10:41.295 --> 00:10:44.470
Speaker 2: I kinda got interested in leverage and and and how that works.

00:10:44.470 --> 00:10:47.670
Speaker 2: So at the at the time, like, my, property in Malvern had gone up

00:10:47.670 --> 00:10:50.790
Speaker 2: in value, I found a local credit union that was able to give me

00:10:50.790 --> 00:10:54.310
Speaker 2: a line of credit or a HELOC on that house for one hundred percent

00:10:54.310 --> 00:10:56.710
Speaker 2: of the value, which I don't think you can find anymore, but at the

00:10:56.710 --> 00:10:58.605
Speaker 2: time, they were doing it.

00:10:58.605 --> 00:11:02.285
Speaker 2: Also, I probably wouldn't even advise my old self to do this, but I

00:11:02.285 --> 00:11:02.685
Speaker 2: No.

00:11:02.685 --> 00:11:06.525
Speaker 2: Kinda levered to the max, and I bought using that, HELOC, I bought another

00:11:06.525 --> 00:11:10.125
Speaker 2: sixteen units all with creative financing.

00:11:10.125 --> 00:11:13.645
Speaker 2: And then from there, I was at a a family function.

00:11:13.645 --> 00:11:15.460
Speaker 2: My dad was telling one of his friends, like, hey.

00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:16.660
Speaker 2: Craig's doing some real estate stuff.

00:11:16.660 --> 00:11:17.380
Speaker 2: It's kinda cool.

00:11:17.380 --> 00:11:19.940
Speaker 2: And the guy's like and this is the time when rates were, like, were,

00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:20.420
Speaker 2: like, zero.

00:11:20.420 --> 00:11:21.620
Speaker 2: You couldn't get yield anywhere.

00:11:21.620 --> 00:11:23.540
Speaker 2: My guy's like, I I got some cash in the round.

00:11:23.540 --> 00:11:24.660
Speaker 2: Like, do you wanna invest?

00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:26.420
Speaker 2: I was like, sure.

00:11:26.420 --> 00:11:30.420
Speaker 2: So his loan then spurred another thirty two unit

00:11:30.475 --> 00:11:33.115
Speaker 2: purchase, which brought me up to,

00:11:33.115 --> 00:11:33.915
Speaker 2: forty eight doors.

00:11:33.915 --> 00:11:36.955
Speaker 2: I sold a few and then just recently bought, sixteen.

00:11:36.955 --> 00:11:37.835
Speaker 2: So Wow.

00:11:37.835 --> 00:11:39.195
Speaker 2: I know it's a fast version, but

00:11:39.195 --> 00:11:39.515
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:11:39.515 --> 00:11:41.670
Speaker 0: But and so how leverage to get here.

00:11:41.670 --> 00:11:41.910
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:43.910
Speaker 0: How many properties,

00:11:43.910 --> 00:11:45.990
Speaker 0: in total do you own right now?

00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:47.990
Speaker 2: I have fifty nine doors now.

00:11:47.990 --> 00:11:48.470
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:11:48.470 --> 00:11:51.510
Speaker 0: And it's, but several

00:11:51.510 --> 00:11:54.975
Speaker 0: are small to mid multifamily

00:11:54.975 --> 00:11:55.615
Speaker 0: properties?

00:11:55.615 --> 00:11:57.135
Speaker 2: Almost all of them are single family.

00:11:57.135 --> 00:11:58.895
Speaker 2: I have some small multifamily.

00:11:58.895 --> 00:11:59.295
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:11:59.295 --> 00:12:00.495
Speaker 2: And then yeah.

00:12:00.495 --> 00:12:01.135
Speaker 2: So that's

00:12:01.135 --> 00:12:03.215
Speaker 0: like, sixteen doors was not one property.

00:12:03.215 --> 00:12:04.895
Speaker 0: That was single family.

00:12:04.895 --> 00:12:07.860
Speaker 2: Sixteen doors was

00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:09.220
Speaker 2: twelve parcels.

00:12:09.220 --> 00:12:10.660
Speaker 0: Okay.

00:12:10.660 --> 00:12:11.140
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:13.140
Speaker 0: So But, yeah, there's a quadrant.

00:12:13.140 --> 00:12:13.460
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:12:13.460 --> 00:12:14.820
Speaker 0: And how are you buying those?

00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.300
Speaker 0: How were you finding the deals to you have a guy who wants to

00:12:17.300 --> 00:12:18.020
Speaker 0: invest with you.

00:12:18.020 --> 00:12:21.540
Speaker 0: So you got the capital problem solved, but how are you finding the the

00:12:21.540 --> 00:12:23.380
Speaker 0: properties?

00:12:23.380 --> 00:12:26.415
Speaker 2: So I bought those forty eight doors all in twenty twenty and twenty twenty

00:12:26.415 --> 00:12:27.615
Speaker 2: one.

00:12:27.615 --> 00:12:29.615
Speaker 2: A lot of people were scared because of COVID.

00:12:29.615 --> 00:12:29.935
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:12:29.935 --> 00:12:32.975
Speaker 2: But in my head, I'm like, rates are next to nothing.

00:12:32.975 --> 00:12:33.295
Speaker 0: Right.

00:12:33.295 --> 00:12:36.335
Speaker 2: And stuff was sitting on the market that that that time for a little

00:12:36.335 --> 00:12:37.855
Speaker 2: bit a little bit longer.

00:12:37.855 --> 00:12:39.510
Speaker 2: At least the stuff that I was looking at.

00:12:39.510 --> 00:12:39.830
Speaker 2: Right.

00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.830
Speaker 2: So I frankly went on the MLS and lowballed a bunch of different

00:12:43.910 --> 00:12:44.390
Speaker 2: people.

00:12:44.390 --> 00:12:46.390
Speaker 2: I found all of it on on the on the on the MLS.

00:12:46.390 --> 00:12:48.150
Speaker 2: I was either mislabeled.

00:12:48.150 --> 00:12:50.950
Speaker 2: Like, for example, I bought a three unit portfolio.

00:12:50.950 --> 00:12:53.255
Speaker 2: That's three, single families.

00:12:53.255 --> 00:12:56.295
Speaker 2: They had it listed as a single family, but for but for at the

00:12:56.295 --> 00:12:58.455
Speaker 2: time, this I know it sounds crazy, but it was it was listed at

00:12:58.455 --> 00:13:02.455
Speaker 2: the time for one seventy five for three buildings or for

00:13:02.535 --> 00:13:04.295
Speaker 2: three townhouses.

00:13:04.295 --> 00:13:07.520
Speaker 2: But in that in that area back then, that was, like, really expensive for

00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:08.880
Speaker 2: one, you know, for one of them.

00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:09.120
Speaker 0: Right.

00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.200
Speaker 2: So I, like, looked at it and just, like, just, like, I read the

00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.000
Speaker 2: description and offered less.

00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.200
Speaker 2: I mean, it it sounds like so like, kinda like kinda like stupid simple,

00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.155
Speaker 2: but but that was really the strategy.

00:13:20.155 --> 00:13:20.715
Speaker 0: That's awesome.

00:13:20.715 --> 00:13:21.515
Speaker 0: So alright.

00:13:21.515 --> 00:13:22.955
Speaker 0: So I know you've okay.

00:13:22.955 --> 00:13:26.955
Speaker 0: So just the rental portfolio itself, what does that look like

00:13:27.035 --> 00:13:31.035
Speaker 0: if you're willing to share from maybe a cash flow standpoint today?

00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:32.650
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:13:32.650 --> 00:13:35.610
Speaker 2: So at the time, like, that that was that was, I thought, my key

00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:37.690
Speaker 2: to kinda getting out of the corporate world.

00:13:37.690 --> 00:13:39.050
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:13:39.050 --> 00:13:42.330
Speaker 2: But the cash flow, these are these are c class rentals.

00:13:42.330 --> 00:13:42.570
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:13:42.570 --> 00:13:46.570
Speaker 2: They had more ebbs and flows than, than than other

00:13:46.585 --> 00:13:47.385
Speaker 2: types of real estate.

00:13:47.385 --> 00:13:48.185
Speaker 2: So Mhmm.

00:13:48.185 --> 00:13:51.305
Speaker 2: I never act have actually taken a distribution from that.

00:13:51.305 --> 00:13:52.025
Speaker 0: Okay.

00:13:52.025 --> 00:13:52.505
Speaker 0: Gotcha.

00:13:52.505 --> 00:13:56.185
Speaker 2: Right now, my fifty nine doors, it's it's a little bit influx right now

00:13:56.185 --> 00:13:57.545
Speaker 2: because I just did a, like, refinance.

00:13:57.545 --> 00:14:01.545
Speaker 2: But I guess at a very high level, these properties have appreciated

00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:03.850
Speaker 2: way more than they've ever cash flowed.

00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:06.170
Speaker 2: So I was able to pull out a a a good chunk of cash

00:14:06.170 --> 00:14:06.890
Speaker 2: here Yeah.

00:14:06.890 --> 00:14:08.330
Speaker 2: Recently.

00:14:08.330 --> 00:14:08.730
Speaker 2: Nice.

00:14:08.730 --> 00:14:11.290
Speaker 2: And and the cash flow kinda pays for it in a little bit, but

00:14:11.290 --> 00:14:12.010
Speaker 2: it's not Right.

00:14:12.010 --> 00:14:14.205
Speaker 2: It's honestly not enough to to live off of

00:14:14.205 --> 00:14:15.005
Speaker 0: or something like that.

00:14:15.005 --> 00:14:15.485
Speaker 0: Right?

00:14:15.485 --> 00:14:15.805
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:14:15.805 --> 00:14:19.805
Speaker 0: I mean, I I like your approach in the in for several reasons.

00:14:19.805 --> 00:14:23.245
Speaker 0: I mean, one, you're willing to take action, obviously, and when other people are

00:14:23.245 --> 00:14:26.900
Speaker 0: scared, you know, takes take action.

00:14:26.900 --> 00:14:29.700
Speaker 0: And two, I you know, I'm I'm a mortgage note investor.

00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:31.460
Speaker 0: I have a a debt fund like you do.

00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:32.740
Speaker 0: I have a mortgage note fund.

00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:36.340
Speaker 0: It's it may be slightly more narrowly focused as far as the the assets

00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:40.340
Speaker 0: that we buy, and I wanna get into how you got into that, obviously.

00:14:42.085 --> 00:14:46.085
Speaker 0: But I don't pretend like the debt side is is just

00:14:46.245 --> 00:14:48.565
Speaker 0: hands down better than the equity side.

00:14:48.565 --> 00:14:48.885
Speaker 0: You know?

00:14:48.885 --> 00:14:52.885
Speaker 0: So, like, I've sold one or two rentals, but I generally

00:14:52.965 --> 00:14:55.950
Speaker 0: wanna hold them, because they do appreciate.

00:14:55.950 --> 00:14:59.710
Speaker 0: Whereas if you I know you originate loans, you you lend.

00:14:59.710 --> 00:15:02.270
Speaker 0: We buy notes at a discount, typically.

00:15:02.270 --> 00:15:05.790
Speaker 0: But either way, when you're holding a note, you know, that the value of

00:15:05.790 --> 00:15:07.230
Speaker 0: that note does not go up.

00:15:07.230 --> 00:15:08.910
Speaker 0: It doesn't appreciate, really.

00:15:08.910 --> 00:15:12.625
Speaker 0: So, I mean, there there are some factors that could drive the value of

00:15:12.625 --> 00:15:15.105
Speaker 0: a note to go up, but it's very minimal.

00:15:15.105 --> 00:15:19.105
Speaker 0: Whereas real estate in the long haul will appreciate, you know, over time.

00:15:19.985 --> 00:15:20.865
Speaker 2: Right.

00:15:20.865 --> 00:15:24.385
Speaker 0: And so and there obviously are tax benefits to holding real estate that you

00:15:24.385 --> 00:15:25.425
Speaker 0: don't get on the debt side.

00:15:25.425 --> 00:15:28.650
Speaker 0: And so I just it's you know, there are there are different approaches.

00:15:28.650 --> 00:15:29.850
Speaker 0: There are different asset classes.

00:15:29.850 --> 00:15:32.010
Speaker 0: There are different strategies.

00:15:32.010 --> 00:15:34.490
Speaker 0: They each have pros and cons.

00:15:34.490 --> 00:15:37.290
Speaker 0: And but I like the the fact that you it doesn't sound like you've

00:15:37.290 --> 00:15:40.495
Speaker 0: sold all your rentals and got into, you know, the debt side, you know,

00:15:40.495 --> 00:15:43.935
Speaker 0: whereas I I think a lot of people, especially in my space, a lot

00:15:43.935 --> 00:15:47.935
Speaker 0: of the gurus will talk about rentals are terrible and, you know,

00:15:48.575 --> 00:15:51.695
Speaker 0: you don't want to deal with tenants' toilets and trash and, you know, look

00:15:51.695 --> 00:15:52.495
Speaker 0: at the look.

00:15:52.495 --> 00:15:56.495
Speaker 0: Your property is appreciated so much that your, you know, return on

00:15:56.660 --> 00:15:59.460
Speaker 0: equity is negligible at this point, and that may be true, and you should

00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:01.780
Speaker 0: look at that.

00:16:01.780 --> 00:16:05.780
Speaker 0: But that doesn't mean you need to just one eighty abandon ship

00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:07.700
Speaker 0: and, you know, pivot entirely.

00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:10.435
Speaker 0: So I like that you're you're you've you did the rental thing, and you're

00:16:10.435 --> 00:16:11.955
Speaker 0: still continuing to grow that side.

00:16:11.955 --> 00:16:15.235
Speaker 0: But then you've also transitioned over, and you have your fund that you've just

00:16:15.235 --> 00:16:18.435
Speaker 0: crossed ten million dollars of capital under management.

00:16:18.435 --> 00:16:19.955
Speaker 0: So,

00:16:19.955 --> 00:16:22.995
Speaker 0: obviously, talk about, you know, what with the the debt side, and how did

00:16:22.995 --> 00:16:26.995
Speaker 0: you get interested in that side, and and what what was your first,

00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:29.800
Speaker 0: exposure to lending?

00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:30.120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.120
Speaker 2: So so I guess I guess, like, to kind of go more to

00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:35.960
Speaker 2: the background of, like, why I started the fund.

00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.685
Speaker 2: So I was at a investment advisory firm.

00:16:38.685 --> 00:16:40.765
Speaker 2: I was in the guy that you talked to when you go in to

00:16:40.765 --> 00:16:43.645
Speaker 2: kind of put, like, pitch you, like, your sixty forty portfolio.

00:16:43.645 --> 00:16:45.965
Speaker 2: I was the guy behind the scene that did all the trading investing.

00:16:45.965 --> 00:16:48.285
Speaker 2: So I started as an analyst there and moved my way after the by

00:16:48.285 --> 00:16:52.285
Speaker 2: the time I left, I was the co chief, the chief,

00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:53.730
Speaker 2: investment officer.

00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:55.010
Speaker 2: So I kinda moved up the ranks there.

00:16:55.010 --> 00:16:58.370
Speaker 2: And as I got more tenured there, I I I I honestly pushed to

00:16:58.370 --> 00:16:59.650
Speaker 2: have more, like, alternatives in.

00:16:59.650 --> 00:17:03.650
Speaker 2: And I consider alternatives anything from private debt, real estate, infrastructure,

00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:08.130
Speaker 2: private equity, things that aren't stocks or bonds, which at the time a lot

00:17:08.305 --> 00:17:11.025
Speaker 2: of those clients didn't really have access to or didn't really know about.

00:17:11.025 --> 00:17:11.985
Speaker 2: They knew, hey.

00:17:11.985 --> 00:17:13.985
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put forty percent of my portfolio in bonds.

00:17:13.985 --> 00:17:15.745
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put sixty percent in stocks.

00:17:15.745 --> 00:17:17.265
Speaker 2: And over the course of the long term, it'll go up.

00:17:17.265 --> 00:17:18.890
Speaker 2: And I still think that's true.

00:17:18.890 --> 00:17:19.090
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:17:19.050 --> 00:17:21.050
Speaker 2: But I also think it comes with a different type of risk than it

00:17:21.050 --> 00:17:22.570
Speaker 2: did maybe twenty years ago.

00:17:22.570 --> 00:17:23.690
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:17:23.690 --> 00:17:27.610
Speaker 2: So I pushed to about twenty five percent of our whole book was in

00:17:27.610 --> 00:17:29.130
Speaker 2: these,

00:17:29.130 --> 00:17:30.170
Speaker 2: these, alternatives.

00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:34.170
Speaker 2: And, honestly, I think they performed a lot better, and had a lower risk

00:17:34.255 --> 00:17:37.055
Speaker 2: characteristics than, like, the, public market.

00:17:37.055 --> 00:17:37.615
Speaker 2: So Right.

00:17:37.615 --> 00:17:38.095
Speaker 2: Right.

00:17:38.095 --> 00:17:39.935
Speaker 2: I guess I guess I guess I can fast forward.

00:17:39.935 --> 00:17:43.295
Speaker 2: That firm that I was with got bought up by a privately backed group,

00:17:43.295 --> 00:17:45.950
Speaker 2: and and we went from a firm of twenty people to a firm of

00:17:45.950 --> 00:17:46.910
Speaker 2: two thousand people.

00:17:46.910 --> 00:17:48.030
Speaker 0: Wow.

00:17:48.030 --> 00:17:49.630
Speaker 2: And the field changed a little bit.

00:17:49.630 --> 00:17:52.990
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to invest as creatively as I as I was before.

00:17:52.990 --> 00:17:53.630
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:17:53.630 --> 00:17:55.790
Speaker 2: And I was kind of at the at the point where I'm like, hey.

00:17:55.790 --> 00:17:56.750
Speaker 2: I've I've always had these dreams.

00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:58.590
Speaker 2: I've start I've start I've started my own fund.

00:17:58.590 --> 00:17:58.990
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:17:58.990 --> 00:18:02.455
Speaker 2: I think I think I think this is the time to do it.

00:18:02.455 --> 00:18:05.415
Speaker 2: And and also they also our, like, founders had sold, so there wasn't a

00:18:05.415 --> 00:18:09.175
Speaker 2: lot of equity to be had either, which in my opinion in, like, corporate

00:18:09.175 --> 00:18:11.415
Speaker 2: America is a big kind of wealth generator.

00:18:11.415 --> 00:18:13.495
Speaker 2: If you wanna stay in your w two, if you can get stock options,

00:18:13.495 --> 00:18:14.375
Speaker 2: things like that, like, that's

00:18:14.375 --> 00:18:14.575
Speaker 0: Right.

00:18:14.535 --> 00:18:14.775
Speaker 0: Right.

00:18:14.775 --> 00:18:15.790
Speaker 2: Really good way to do it.

00:18:15.790 --> 00:18:16.030
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:18:16.030 --> 00:18:18.430
Speaker 2: And that really wasn't as much on the on the table anymore.

00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:20.910
Speaker 2: And I kinda thought back to my client base there is, like, look.

00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:24.910
Speaker 2: The average client that we had was sixty years old with a net worth

00:18:24.910 --> 00:18:26.830
Speaker 2: of two to ten million bucks.

00:18:26.830 --> 00:18:27.230
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:18:27.230 --> 00:18:30.885
Speaker 2: Didn't really have a lot of knowledge about investing like we do, but really

00:18:30.885 --> 00:18:34.885
Speaker 2: love the aspect of having a consistent income stream just like they did

00:18:34.965 --> 00:18:35.925
Speaker 2: when they when they were working.

00:18:35.925 --> 00:18:39.925
Speaker 2: So I'm like, if I could create a a a product for them

00:18:40.725 --> 00:18:43.925
Speaker 2: that pay them every every single month that had a reasonable level of of

00:18:43.925 --> 00:18:46.780
Speaker 2: returns, like, similar to the stock market long term, I think that might be

00:18:46.780 --> 00:18:48.300
Speaker 2: something that they would find of interest.

00:18:48.300 --> 00:18:48.860
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:18:48.860 --> 00:18:50.380
Speaker 2: And at the time, I was looking in different deals.

00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:52.540
Speaker 2: I was doing real estate stuff, and I was also investing in some other

00:18:52.540 --> 00:18:55.740
Speaker 2: deals as well, which which I'll I'll I'll get in here too, which I'm

00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.740
Speaker 2: like you know, the terms you can get are really advantageous from a

00:18:59.785 --> 00:19:00.345
Speaker 2: risk perspective.

00:19:00.345 --> 00:19:02.505
Speaker 2: Like, a lot of stuff has to go wrong for us not to get

00:19:02.505 --> 00:19:03.305
Speaker 2: paid back.

00:19:03.305 --> 00:19:04.105
Speaker 2: Right.

00:19:04.105 --> 00:19:06.985
Speaker 2: So that was kind of the that was kind of the origin of the

00:19:06.985 --> 00:19:07.225
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:19:07.225 --> 00:19:09.785
Speaker 2: And and I launched that in in March of twenty three.

00:19:09.785 --> 00:19:10.265
Speaker 2: So

00:19:10.265 --> 00:19:10.760
Speaker 0: Okay.

00:19:10.760 --> 00:19:11.000
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.120
Speaker 0: And I love the fact that I I was actually just, talking about this

00:19:14.120 --> 00:19:18.120
Speaker 0: on a different different podcast a little bit ago earlier today, but

00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.720
Speaker 0: it is like we in the mortgage note space, we get people from we

00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:22.520
Speaker 0: get engineers.

00:19:22.520 --> 00:19:25.375
Speaker 0: We get people from commercial, you know, construction.

00:19:25.375 --> 00:19:29.375
Speaker 0: We get people from we get just if they wanna start

00:19:29.535 --> 00:19:32.175
Speaker 0: becoming an investor because they you don't have to launch a fund.

00:19:32.175 --> 00:19:34.415
Speaker 0: You can buy a mortgage note and become an investor.

00:19:34.415 --> 00:19:34.895
Speaker 0: Sure.

00:19:34.895 --> 00:19:38.130
Speaker 0: But, you know, we get people from the mortgage space.

00:19:38.130 --> 00:19:39.810
Speaker 0: We get people from real estate investing.

00:19:39.810 --> 00:19:43.330
Speaker 0: We get people from, you know, all over.

00:19:43.330 --> 00:19:47.330
Speaker 0: And so you you brought, you know, a good chunk of

00:19:47.330 --> 00:19:51.330
Speaker 0: knowledge from residential real estate investing as well as the financial

00:19:51.975 --> 00:19:55.975
Speaker 0: markets, which, I mean, yeah, you you were mostly, for a good

00:19:55.975 --> 00:19:59.975
Speaker 0: bit, focused on the public markets, but you obviously went into the private market

00:20:00.135 --> 00:20:00.455
Speaker 0: space.

00:20:00.455 --> 00:20:04.455
Speaker 0: And, I mean, that that is valuable for sure for sure, especially

00:20:04.770 --> 00:20:07.570
Speaker 0: I always like to say that when you're running a note fund or a

00:20:07.570 --> 00:20:10.370
Speaker 0: private debt fund, it's really comes down to three things.

00:20:10.370 --> 00:20:12.690
Speaker 0: One is finding the deals.

00:20:12.690 --> 00:20:13.250
Speaker 0: You know?

00:20:13.250 --> 00:20:15.570
Speaker 0: Two is finding the capital, the investors.

00:20:15.570 --> 00:20:15.810
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:20:15.810 --> 00:20:19.570
Speaker 0: And three is managing those two, which is managing the deals of the capital.

00:20:19.570 --> 00:20:22.185
Speaker 0: That's how we break it down with three legs of the stool.

00:20:22.185 --> 00:20:26.185
Speaker 0: And, you know, you understood really

00:20:26.345 --> 00:20:28.665
Speaker 0: a a good bit of all of that, so it makes sense to me

00:20:28.665 --> 00:20:32.585
Speaker 0: that that you would from a knowledge standpoint, you were ready to go to

00:20:32.585 --> 00:20:34.050
Speaker 0: to launch a fund.

00:20:34.050 --> 00:20:37.410
Speaker 0: That said, people might be listening to this or watching this and saying, like,

00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:41.410
Speaker 0: so everything went smoothly through Craig's background.

00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:43.090
Speaker 0: He's never had any challenges.

00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:46.210
Speaker 0: This was he just got a job and got promoted and then started a

00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:48.205
Speaker 0: fund, and it was ten million dollars.

00:20:48.205 --> 00:20:50.845
Speaker 0: Super easy.

00:20:50.845 --> 00:20:51.725
Speaker 0: I wish.

00:20:51.725 --> 00:20:52.445
Speaker 0: I don't think so.

00:20:52.445 --> 00:20:52.685
Speaker 0: Right?

00:20:52.685 --> 00:20:54.845
Speaker 0: I I know it comes with a lot of stress, a lot of headaches,

00:20:54.845 --> 00:20:56.685
Speaker 0: a lot of work.

00:20:56.685 --> 00:20:59.725
Speaker 0: We don't have to focus on, you know, your day to day, but talk

00:20:59.725 --> 00:21:03.725
Speaker 0: to us about a deal that didn't go so well for you personally.

00:21:05.050 --> 00:21:05.370
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:21:05.370 --> 00:21:09.370
Speaker 2: So so I guess for me I mean, like, like we said at at

00:21:09.450 --> 00:21:12.330
Speaker 2: at, like, kind of the top of the hour here is is if you've

00:21:12.330 --> 00:21:15.610
Speaker 2: been investing long enough in enough different deals, there's gonna be something that doesn't

00:21:15.610 --> 00:21:17.395
Speaker 2: work out in your favor.

00:21:17.395 --> 00:21:19.315
Speaker 2: I'll give a a quick story here.

00:21:19.315 --> 00:21:21.315
Speaker 2: This is prior to the fund.

00:21:21.315 --> 00:21:25.315
Speaker 2: So, you know, four four or five years ago, I was introduced

00:21:25.395 --> 00:21:28.755
Speaker 2: to someone down in Texas,

00:21:28.755 --> 00:21:30.595
Speaker 2: and it was an investor.

00:21:30.595 --> 00:21:33.200
Speaker 2: It had come to me from a

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:33.840
Speaker 2: investor friend.

00:21:33.840 --> 00:21:34.400
Speaker 2: He said, hey.

00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:35.680
Speaker 2: This guy needs some money.

00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.871
Speaker 2: Would would you be interested in, you know, lo lo lo lo lo lo

00:21:38.871 --> 00:21:40.560
Speaker 2: lo lo loaning him some money on his portfolio.

00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:42.480
Speaker 2: He needs to do some repairs, whatever.

00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:43.120
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:47.120
Speaker 2: The the yield was pretty attractive, and I trusted that

00:21:47.120 --> 00:21:50.325
Speaker 2: if it came from this guy that this other guy was kind of pre

00:21:50.325 --> 00:21:50.885
Speaker 2: vetted.

00:21:50.885 --> 00:21:51.845
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:21:51.845 --> 00:21:55.765
Speaker 2: Also to add add, like, icing on the cake is is the guy that

00:21:55.765 --> 00:21:59.045
Speaker 2: I had that the guy that I was going to lend money to was

00:21:59.045 --> 00:22:00.805
Speaker 2: also a pastor at a church down there.

00:22:00.805 --> 00:22:02.325
Speaker 2: So for me, the social proof was there.

00:22:02.325 --> 00:22:06.040
Speaker 2: Like, you know, like, if after really not gonna pay me back.

00:22:06.040 --> 00:22:06.520
Speaker 2: Right.

00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:06.720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:09.640
Speaker 0: So you had double it's like you knew that you you trusted the person

00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:10.840
Speaker 0: who approached you about this.

00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:14.600
Speaker 0: And then although you didn't know the person you were lending money to, he

00:22:14.600 --> 00:22:15.320
Speaker 0: was a pastor.

00:22:15.320 --> 00:22:19.320
Speaker 0: And so there's multiple reasons why this was attractive, and the yield was

00:22:19.385 --> 00:22:20.825
Speaker 0: attractive as well.

00:22:20.825 --> 00:22:23.225
Speaker 2: A pastor and a, experienced real estate investor.

00:22:23.225 --> 00:22:25.625
Speaker 2: He had done many deals before, so it wasn't like this was his first

00:22:25.625 --> 00:22:26.345
Speaker 2: time doing this.

00:22:26.345 --> 00:22:26.665
Speaker 0: Right.

00:22:26.665 --> 00:22:26.905
Speaker 0: Right.

00:22:26.905 --> 00:22:29.785
Speaker 2: Because pastor and real estate investor usually don't go in

00:22:29.785 --> 00:22:32.390
Speaker 0: the That's true.

00:22:32.390 --> 00:22:36.390
Speaker 2: But but, anyway, so so I lent him fifty thousand dollars, eighteen percent

00:22:36.550 --> 00:22:39.190
Speaker 2: note, interest only, which is a pretty attractive note.

00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:39.750
Speaker 2: Right?

00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:40.870
Speaker 2: Right.

00:22:40.870 --> 00:22:43.830
Speaker 2: But the but but what got me into trouble here was it was a

00:22:43.830 --> 00:22:44.950
Speaker 2: second position loan.

00:22:44.950 --> 00:22:46.795
Speaker 0: K.

00:22:46.795 --> 00:22:48.315
Speaker 2: He he had claimed he's like, hey.

00:22:48.315 --> 00:22:50.635
Speaker 2: I've I've a first position loan with the bank.

00:22:50.635 --> 00:22:54.475
Speaker 2: It's for about seven hundred thousand dollars, but this portfolio is easily, quote, unquote,

00:22:54.475 --> 00:22:57.195
Speaker 2: easily worth one point two, one point five all day.

00:22:57.195 --> 00:22:57.835
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:22:57.835 --> 00:23:01.835
Speaker 2: Well, when the no interest payment stopped getting paid, which is, like,

00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.120
Speaker 2: month four Mhmm.

00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:07.120
Speaker 2: I quickly realized that this property was was not worth anywhere

00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.560
Speaker 2: near.

00:23:08.560 --> 00:23:08.880
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.640
Speaker 2: What what I I went I went I went to the I went to

00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:11.120
Speaker 2: the what

00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:15.120
Speaker 0: was the term of the the note originally that that you provided?

00:23:15.255 --> 00:23:17.415
Speaker 2: Twelve months, interest only.

00:23:17.415 --> 00:23:17.975
Speaker 2: K.

00:23:17.975 --> 00:23:19.415
Speaker 2: And his whole plan was just to flip it.

00:23:19.415 --> 00:23:19.615
Speaker 2: Right?

00:23:19.495 --> 00:23:21.175
Speaker 2: He was gonna he was he was gonna, sell

00:23:21.175 --> 00:23:21.655
Speaker 0: it.

00:23:21.655 --> 00:23:22.135
Speaker 0: Gotcha.

00:23:22.135 --> 00:23:24.295
Speaker 2: So I didn't get that either twelve months or yeah.

00:23:24.295 --> 00:23:24.615
Speaker 2: Good.

00:23:24.615 --> 00:23:28.615
Speaker 0: Was this your first, first deal or as far as lending

00:23:28.695 --> 00:23:30.350
Speaker 0: yourself?

00:23:30.350 --> 00:23:32.270
Speaker 2: First second lien deal.

00:23:32.270 --> 00:23:36.030
Speaker 2: I had I had lent on a personally position before, and it went went

00:23:36.030 --> 00:23:36.350
Speaker 2: fine.

00:23:36.350 --> 00:23:37.950
Speaker 2: But I reached for yield.

00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:38.190
Speaker 2: Right.

00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:40.110
Speaker 2: But I I had lent at, like, twelve percent.

00:23:40.110 --> 00:23:41.070
Speaker 2: But eighteen hey.

00:23:41.070 --> 00:23:42.510
Speaker 2: I mean, eighteen thousand twelve.

00:23:42.510 --> 00:23:42.830
Speaker 2: Right?

00:23:42.830 --> 00:23:44.825
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

00:23:44.825 --> 00:23:46.985
Speaker 0: One point five times as good.

00:23:46.985 --> 00:23:47.625
Speaker 0: Exactly.

00:23:47.625 --> 00:23:49.785
Speaker 0: So so okay.

00:23:49.785 --> 00:23:52.985
Speaker 0: And and, you know, I've bought a bunch of and especially recently, we bought

00:23:52.985 --> 00:23:55.945
Speaker 0: a bunch of second liens.

00:23:55.945 --> 00:23:57.400
Speaker 0: And they they are different.

00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:01.400
Speaker 0: And, you know, they're it's just we're not gonna get into all the

00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:02.120
Speaker 0: details on that.

00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:03.800
Speaker 0: But,

00:24:03.800 --> 00:24:07.560
Speaker 0: you know, from a note buying standpoint, you've gotta be a bit more patient.

00:24:07.560 --> 00:24:10.920
Speaker 0: They're more a little bit more borrower centric.

00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.285
Speaker 0: They can be as far as trying to, you're not you're not as close

00:24:14.285 --> 00:24:16.845
Speaker 0: to the property, you know, in first lien position.

00:24:16.845 --> 00:24:19.565
Speaker 0: But that property value is still critical.

00:24:19.565 --> 00:24:20.525
Speaker 0: I mean, it's it's

00:24:20.525 --> 00:24:21.005
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

00:24:21.005 --> 00:24:21.205
Speaker 2: I

00:24:21.165 --> 00:24:25.165
Speaker 0: mean, I I I say just across the board, the biggest way to lose

00:24:25.245 --> 00:24:29.245
Speaker 0: money in lending or note buying doesn't matter is misunderstanding

00:24:29.830 --> 00:24:33.830
Speaker 0: the property value or miss or not putting enough time or effort

00:24:33.990 --> 00:24:35.830
Speaker 0: into assessing that property value.

00:24:35.830 --> 00:24:39.830
Speaker 0: You can never know for sure how much it's actually worth until the property

00:24:39.910 --> 00:24:40.390
Speaker 0: is sold.

00:24:40.390 --> 00:24:43.675
Speaker 0: The market will tell you what it's what it's actually worth.

00:24:43.675 --> 00:24:47.675
Speaker 0: But that's how you lose money in this business is is not

00:24:47.675 --> 00:24:49.675
Speaker 0: is is under you know?

00:24:49.675 --> 00:24:53.675
Speaker 0: Lending money to somebody you don't know, obviously, or you haven't vetted, but also

00:24:53.915 --> 00:24:55.590
Speaker 0: misunderstanding the property value.

00:24:55.590 --> 00:24:56.870
Speaker 0: And I'm not here to lecture you.

00:24:56.870 --> 00:24:59.510
Speaker 0: I'm talking about from personal experience myself.

00:24:59.510 --> 00:24:59.830
Speaker 0: Okay.

00:24:59.830 --> 00:25:00.390
Speaker 0: You know?

00:25:00.390 --> 00:25:04.390
Speaker 0: And we're trying to educate the the listener.

00:25:04.790 --> 00:25:08.790
Speaker 0: And so I'm I'm assuming there wasn't much, you know,

00:25:08.955 --> 00:25:12.395
Speaker 0: effort put in or or research put in on the property value initially.

00:25:12.395 --> 00:25:14.955
Speaker 0: Is that fair to say?

00:25:14.955 --> 00:25:15.835
Speaker 2: That's fair to say.

00:25:15.835 --> 00:25:16.075
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:25:16.075 --> 00:25:17.675
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, you can do a little bit of research, but I

00:25:17.675 --> 00:25:18.795
Speaker 2: didn't know the neighborhood.

00:25:18.795 --> 00:25:19.275
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:25:19.275 --> 00:25:21.430
Speaker 2: These were more rural properties.

00:25:21.430 --> 00:25:23.590
Speaker 2: I mean, not to get into the details, but it wasn't even worth anywhere.

00:25:23.590 --> 00:25:25.110
Speaker 2: You had a big headlint on it.

00:25:25.110 --> 00:25:27.750
Speaker 2: So I actually had like, this guy just stopped paying.

00:25:27.750 --> 00:25:29.910
Speaker 2: I actually worked with the bank to set up ownership.

00:25:29.910 --> 00:25:33.475
Speaker 2: And after looking in and talking with a local real estate agent down there

00:25:33.475 --> 00:25:36.755
Speaker 2: I deemed it was just better to let the fifty go because the amount

00:25:36.755 --> 00:25:39.475
Speaker 2: of money I would have to invest to make it even worth the bank

00:25:39.475 --> 00:25:39.955
Speaker 2: note.

00:25:39.955 --> 00:25:40.275
Speaker 2: Right.

00:25:40.275 --> 00:25:42.515
Speaker 2: It was it was just doing bad money at the deal.

00:25:42.515 --> 00:25:42.835
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:25:42.835 --> 00:25:44.355
Speaker 2: So, Got it.

00:25:44.355 --> 00:25:47.875
Speaker 2: That was a deal that went to zero and definitely was a painful moment

00:25:47.875 --> 00:25:48.515
Speaker 2: for sure.

00:25:48.515 --> 00:25:49.420
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:25:49.420 --> 00:25:49.660
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:52.700
Speaker 0: So you've already touched on it, but what would you what did you learn

00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:56.700
Speaker 0: from that that you've applied to your investing in the future?

00:25:57.180 --> 00:25:57.500
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:25:57.500 --> 00:26:01.500
Speaker 2: So so to be honest, in our fund, we don't provide any loans for

00:26:01.925 --> 00:26:03.525
Speaker 2: a, like, a second lien position anymore.

00:26:03.525 --> 00:26:03.725
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:26:03.685 --> 00:26:07.125
Speaker 2: So all of our notes are backed by some sort of hard asset that

00:26:07.125 --> 00:26:08.645
Speaker 2: has a first lien position on it.

00:26:08.645 --> 00:26:09.285
Speaker 0: Makes sense.

00:26:09.285 --> 00:26:11.285
Speaker 2: That's a, like, nonnegotiable now for us.

00:26:11.285 --> 00:26:11.525
Speaker 0: Right.

00:26:11.525 --> 00:26:15.525
Speaker 0: I mean, I know some hard money lenders, private, you know, debt funds, people

00:26:15.690 --> 00:26:17.770
Speaker 0: who do the lending,

00:26:17.770 --> 00:26:21.690
Speaker 0: will have that rule, but then maybe they'll they might entertain a second position

00:26:21.690 --> 00:26:23.210
Speaker 0: if they already own the first.

00:26:23.210 --> 00:26:26.170
Speaker 0: You know, maybe maybe they're doing a first and a second, something like that.

00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:26.490
Speaker 0: Right.

00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.490
Speaker 0: Because then you have control and visibility over the entire, you know, both both

00:26:30.815 --> 00:26:31.375
Speaker 0: the liens.

00:26:31.375 --> 00:26:32.175
Speaker 2: That's

00:26:32.175 --> 00:26:33.855
Speaker 0: right.

00:26:33.855 --> 00:26:34.735
Speaker 0: But, no.

00:26:34.735 --> 00:26:38.735
Speaker 0: It's definitely I've I've been in the mortgage note space for

00:26:38.815 --> 00:26:42.815
Speaker 0: eight years, and we really didn't we didn't buy our first

00:26:43.050 --> 00:26:44.570
Speaker 0: second mortgage until this year.

00:26:44.570 --> 00:26:48.170
Speaker 0: So it wasn't something I was just jumping into.

00:26:48.170 --> 00:26:48.650
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:52.570
Speaker 0: And I've only bought from, you know, from people who I know, like, and

00:26:52.570 --> 00:26:56.570
Speaker 0: trust and who are very experienced investors.

00:26:56.715 --> 00:26:58.155
Speaker 0: Doesn't mean there's not risk there.

00:26:58.155 --> 00:27:00.075
Speaker 0: To be clear, there's always risk.

00:27:00.075 --> 00:27:04.075
Speaker 0: And there is, I would say, more risk with seconds than first, and

00:27:04.075 --> 00:27:05.515
Speaker 0: that's why the yields are higher.

00:27:05.515 --> 00:27:07.835
Speaker 2: The risk and how much equity there is in the property.

00:27:07.835 --> 00:27:10.400
Speaker 2: If you if you don't understand what you're buying, I'm not saying it's a

00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:11.040
Speaker 2: bad investment.

00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:11.840
Speaker 2: It's just a higher risk.

00:27:11.840 --> 00:27:14.000
Speaker 2: And if if you understand what the risk is and if and if you

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.960
Speaker 2: can get compensated for that risk, then it might be a good investment.

00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:20.640
Speaker 0: So let's get a a little bit personal, if you will.

00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.600
Speaker 0: What was your, you know, your family situation at that time?

00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:27.025
Speaker 0: Did the fifty k affect you personally?

00:27:27.025 --> 00:27:30.705
Speaker 0: You know, how did things how did it go go for you personally after

00:27:30.705 --> 00:27:32.305
Speaker 0: that?

00:27:32.305 --> 00:27:32.505
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:27:32.465 --> 00:27:34.865
Speaker 2: So to be honest with you, I was at a point where the fifty

00:27:34.865 --> 00:27:37.265
Speaker 2: k, it didn't change my life at all Gotcha.

00:27:37.265 --> 00:27:37.905
Speaker 2: Which is good.

00:27:37.905 --> 00:27:40.990
Speaker 2: I I I wouldn't have let him the money if that was the case.

00:27:40.990 --> 00:27:42.750
Speaker 2: Smart.

00:27:42.750 --> 00:27:46.750
Speaker 2: I, I mean, I just learned this from over time, like, kind of,

00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:50.270
Speaker 2: constructing portfolios, but I was never gonna put more than five to ten percent

00:27:50.270 --> 00:27:52.190
Speaker 2: of my net worth into into one asset.

00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:53.375
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:27:53.375 --> 00:27:54.335
Speaker 0: So Makes sense.

00:27:54.335 --> 00:27:57.615
Speaker 2: It hurt, but, yeah, it didn't it it didn't hurt my relationship with my

00:27:57.615 --> 00:27:57.815
Speaker 2: wife.

00:27:57.775 --> 00:28:00.975
Speaker 2: It didn't hurt it didn't hurt anything like that, which which is that was

00:28:00.975 --> 00:28:01.455
Speaker 2: good.

00:28:01.455 --> 00:28:01.855
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:28:01.855 --> 00:28:02.055
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:28:02.015 --> 00:28:04.175
Speaker 2: That is good.

00:28:04.175 --> 00:28:07.215
Speaker 0: And, again, I and we don't want to make these mistakes.

00:28:07.215 --> 00:28:10.850
Speaker 0: Like, you know, obviously, we're not we're not looking, you know, with my show,

00:28:10.850 --> 00:28:13.050
Speaker 0: we from adversity to abundance.

00:28:13.050 --> 00:28:16.490
Speaker 0: I joke with people that I'm always looking I'm so super excited when they

00:28:16.490 --> 00:28:19.370
Speaker 0: have adversity because there's some content for my show.

00:28:19.370 --> 00:28:20.265
Speaker 0: You know?

00:28:20.265 --> 00:28:22.905
Speaker 0: Obviously, I'm not happy that you lost fifty k.

00:28:22.905 --> 00:28:25.625
Speaker 0: I'm I'm not happy when that anybody has to go through adversity.

00:28:25.625 --> 00:28:27.225
Speaker 0: But,

00:28:27.225 --> 00:28:30.985
Speaker 0: you know, but the reality is it happens, and and you can learn from

00:28:30.985 --> 00:28:31.185
Speaker 0: it.

00:28:31.065 --> 00:28:35.040
Speaker 0: And I think you're a better investor now because of because you made some

00:28:35.040 --> 00:28:35.520
Speaker 0: mistakes

00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:35.720
Speaker 2: with

00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:36.000
Speaker 0: that deal.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.000
Speaker 0: So what it so you you don't do second lien,

00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.240
Speaker 0: lending at this point, and I'm assuming that you do a pretty

00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.320
Speaker 0: credit pretty decent check on the property value as well and the borrower.

00:28:48.320 --> 00:28:48.865
Speaker 0: Is that pretty

00:28:48.865 --> 00:28:49.745
Speaker 2: Oh, a thousand percent.

00:28:49.745 --> 00:28:53.345
Speaker 2: I mean, a very small percentage of our fund is in real estate, but

00:28:53.345 --> 00:28:56.065
Speaker 2: to your point, the only real estate deals we do in the fund are

00:28:56.065 --> 00:29:00.065
Speaker 2: with people that I could honestly drive the property or I know incredibly

00:29:00.065 --> 00:29:02.145
Speaker 2: well, like, close close connections.

00:29:02.145 --> 00:29:02.345
Speaker 2: Right.

00:29:02.305 --> 00:29:05.020
Speaker 2: Even then, I'm getting a position on it.

00:29:05.020 --> 00:29:07.820
Speaker 2: I'll I'm gonna start I'll start a little, like, a tidbit as I was

00:29:07.820 --> 00:29:08.700
Speaker 2: going through that

00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:09.100
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:29:09.100 --> 00:29:12.620
Speaker 2: Fifty dollars loss is is I had a mentor at the time, which I

00:29:12.620 --> 00:29:16.220
Speaker 2: don't think he knew that he was a he was my, like, mentor, but

00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:16.780
Speaker 2: but he's Yeah.

00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:17.020
Speaker 0: Told I

00:29:17.020 --> 00:29:19.340
Speaker 2: told me this, and I honestly still hold this to this day when I

00:29:19.340 --> 00:29:20.835
Speaker 2: look at deals with the fund.

00:29:20.835 --> 00:29:24.115
Speaker 2: As he said, he's like like, going into deals that I do, he's like

00:29:24.115 --> 00:29:28.115
Speaker 2: he's like, you have to make it more painful for them not

00:29:28.115 --> 00:29:31.315
Speaker 2: to pay you back than if they were just kinda execute on your, like,

00:29:31.315 --> 00:29:33.290
Speaker 2: debt payment, which sounds harsh.

00:29:33.290 --> 00:29:35.690
Speaker 2: But, really, what he meant by that is, like, the term should be written

00:29:35.690 --> 00:29:38.170
Speaker 2: in in, like, in such a way that if they stop paying you, you

00:29:38.170 --> 00:29:40.410
Speaker 2: would actually end up better.

00:29:40.410 --> 00:29:40.730
Speaker 2: Right?

00:29:40.730 --> 00:29:41.050
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:29:41.050 --> 00:29:42.490
Speaker 2: So for for example, if

00:29:42.490 --> 00:29:42.690
Speaker 0: you have

00:29:42.650 --> 00:29:43.930
Speaker 2: if you have an example.

00:29:43.930 --> 00:29:46.655
Speaker 2: If you have a, two hundred thousand dollar property.

00:29:46.655 --> 00:29:47.455
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:29:47.455 --> 00:29:51.375
Speaker 2: And and you loan them, like, one hundred thousand dollars and they stop paying,

00:29:51.375 --> 00:29:55.135
Speaker 2: you then take ownership of of that that that that the actual property.

00:29:55.135 --> 00:29:55.615
Speaker 2: You Right.

00:29:55.615 --> 00:29:59.015
Speaker 2: Then own it to a you then own a, like, do you then own

00:29:59.015 --> 00:30:01.070
Speaker 2: a, like, do you then own a, like, two a a two hundred thousand

00:30:01.070 --> 00:30:01.950
Speaker 2: dollar asset, which

00:30:01.950 --> 00:30:02.150
Speaker 0: Right.

00:30:02.110 --> 00:30:02.310
Speaker 0: Is

00:30:02.270 --> 00:30:04.830
Speaker 2: not obviously way better than having eight hundred thousand dollar note.

00:30:04.830 --> 00:30:05.950
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:08.830
Speaker 2: It's a super simple example, but, like, you know, I think that's what he

00:30:08.830 --> 00:30:11.390
Speaker 2: was talking about, and it it's still like, every time I I kinda look

00:30:11.390 --> 00:30:14.435
Speaker 2: at a deal now and look at the terms, I'm like, is this painful

00:30:14.435 --> 00:30:14.995
Speaker 2: enough for them?

00:30:14.995 --> 00:30:17.795
Speaker 2: Again, sounds super harsh, but, you know, these these are people's money that I

00:30:17.795 --> 00:30:19.795
Speaker 2: have access to and that I Right.

00:30:19.795 --> 00:30:21.475
Speaker 2: Actually treat treat that very seriously.

00:30:21.475 --> 00:30:21.955
Speaker 2: So Yeah.

00:30:21.955 --> 00:30:22.595
Speaker 0: For sure.

00:30:22.595 --> 00:30:26.515
Speaker 0: And and, yeah, I mean, the truth is, like, in especially in the on

00:30:26.515 --> 00:30:29.820
Speaker 0: the commercial side or, you know, it's business.

00:30:29.820 --> 00:30:33.340
Speaker 0: I mean, it's it's, you're not trying to take you're not trying to foreclose

00:30:33.340 --> 00:30:34.220
Speaker 0: or get a deed in lieu.

00:30:34.220 --> 00:30:34.620
Speaker 0: That's not your

00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:35.100
Speaker 2: goal.

00:30:35.100 --> 00:30:35.820
Speaker 2: To.

00:30:35.820 --> 00:30:36.380
Speaker 0: Right.

00:30:36.380 --> 00:30:39.660
Speaker 0: But, I mean, you will if you have to, and that's the point of

00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:40.700
Speaker 0: having collateral.

00:30:40.700 --> 00:30:41.020
Speaker 0: Right?

00:30:41.020 --> 00:30:42.300
Speaker 0: So Mhmm.

00:30:42.300 --> 00:30:45.675
Speaker 0: And like you said, you've got

00:30:45.675 --> 00:30:49.675
Speaker 0: you've got people's capital that, you know, people have entrusted you with, and

00:30:49.755 --> 00:30:51.755
Speaker 0: you need to be a good steward of of that.

00:30:51.755 --> 00:30:53.195
Speaker 0: So that comes first.

00:30:53.195 --> 00:30:56.820
Speaker 0: I mean, with our our fund, the Integrity Income Fund, that's that's first is

00:30:56.820 --> 00:30:59.460
Speaker 0: our protection of our investor capital.

00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:00.180
Speaker 0: Right.

00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:04.020
Speaker 0: Everything else is secondary, and I'm not just I'm not just saying that.

00:31:04.020 --> 00:31:04.500
Speaker 0: Right.

00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:06.660
Speaker 0: I take it very seriously.

00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:09.860
Speaker 0: So talk to us about how you created the fund, and and we don't

00:31:09.860 --> 00:31:13.715
Speaker 0: have too much more time, but talk to us about, you know, what what

00:31:13.715 --> 00:31:17.715
Speaker 0: you buy in the fund, what an investor can expect if they, you

00:31:17.715 --> 00:31:21.715
Speaker 0: know, reach out to you, regarding your fund.

00:31:21.715 --> 00:31:21.955
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:31:21.955 --> 00:31:24.595
Speaker 2: So so so I started this in March of twenty three.

00:31:24.595 --> 00:31:28.030
Speaker 2: We offer our investors a fixed rate return of of eight to ten percent

00:31:28.030 --> 00:31:30.270
Speaker 2: depending on how much money they put in.

00:31:30.270 --> 00:31:32.270
Speaker 2: That payment starts day one.

00:31:32.270 --> 00:31:34.990
Speaker 2: So if they put their money in today, they get paid the next month

00:31:34.990 --> 00:31:36.590
Speaker 2: and every month thereafter.

00:31:36.590 --> 00:31:38.590
Speaker 2: The investor gets to customize the term.

00:31:38.590 --> 00:31:41.975
Speaker 2: So so we do anything from three to seven years.

00:31:41.975 --> 00:31:45.975
Speaker 2: The investor can choose anything they want in between that.

00:31:45.975 --> 00:31:49.975
Speaker 2: And on the back end, we're investing in old school cash cow businesses.

00:31:49.975 --> 00:31:52.375
Speaker 2: So this can be HVAC.

00:31:52.375 --> 00:31:53.815
Speaker 2: We have some oil and gas in there.

00:31:53.815 --> 00:31:55.655
Speaker 2: We have some insurance companies.

00:31:55.655 --> 00:31:57.530
Speaker 2: We have

00:31:57.530 --> 00:31:58.090
Speaker 2: franchises.

00:31:58.090 --> 00:32:00.250
Speaker 2: We have an ecommerce brand.

00:32:00.250 --> 00:32:04.250
Speaker 2: So things that I can tie hard assets to, again, as a kinda

00:32:04.330 --> 00:32:05.770
Speaker 2: asset backed loan.

00:32:05.770 --> 00:32:09.290
Speaker 2: And what I'm really liking to do now is do a debt plus a

00:32:09.290 --> 00:32:10.815
Speaker 2: little bit of the, upside.

00:32:10.815 --> 00:32:13.455
Speaker 2: So I'll lend someone a little bit lower rate and go a little bit

00:32:13.455 --> 00:32:17.455
Speaker 2: more upside on the back end via a profitability kicker.

00:32:17.455 --> 00:32:17.855
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:32:17.855 --> 00:32:19.295
Speaker 2: I think that's better for both.

00:32:19.295 --> 00:32:22.575
Speaker 2: They get a little bit lower debt, so it kinda lowers, like, their cash

00:32:22.575 --> 00:32:22.815
Speaker 2: burn.

00:32:22.815 --> 00:32:24.815
Speaker 2: They can go out there and get other debt if they need to, or

00:32:24.815 --> 00:32:26.480
Speaker 2: they can kind of restructure things.

00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:28.551
Speaker 0: And just to be clear to look for outside.

00:32:28.551 --> 00:32:32.160
Speaker 0: I think it was clear, but just to be even more clear, you're talking

00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.200
Speaker 0: about debt and equity for the the operator of that business.

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.200
Speaker 0: You're not talking about an equity position for your passive investor in your Exactly.

00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:40.035
Speaker 2: A thousand percent.

00:32:40.035 --> 00:32:40.755
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

00:32:40.755 --> 00:32:44.035
Speaker 0: Mix rate of return, eight to ten percent for the passive investor.

00:32:44.035 --> 00:32:48.035
Speaker 0: But for these businesses that you're investing in, real estate that you're investing in,

00:32:49.555 --> 00:32:52.995
Speaker 0: you you've started to do more of a little bit of an equity split

00:32:52.995 --> 00:32:56.410
Speaker 0: where the fund gets an equity position in that So not

00:32:56.410 --> 00:32:57.130
Speaker 2: an equity position.

00:32:57.130 --> 00:32:59.690
Speaker 2: It's a profitability kick, I don't know.

00:32:59.690 --> 00:33:00.170
Speaker 2: Kicker.

00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:00.650
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:01.450
Speaker 2: Alright.

00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:05.450
Speaker 0: But some of the upside depend depending on the business's performance,

00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:08.970
Speaker 0: versus just a fixed note.

00:33:08.970 --> 00:33:09.530
Speaker 0: Right?

00:33:09.530 --> 00:33:10.170
Speaker 0: Exactly.

00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:10.975
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:33:10.975 --> 00:33:13.455
Speaker 2: So so we have the we have the core fund there, and that's and

00:33:13.455 --> 00:33:16.575
Speaker 2: that's and that's and that's really driven all the all the all the all

00:33:16.575 --> 00:33:17.055
Speaker 2: the growth.

00:33:17.055 --> 00:33:18.335
Speaker 2: But we do have, like, these side deals.

00:33:18.335 --> 00:33:20.255
Speaker 2: I I I call also.

00:33:20.255 --> 00:33:23.455
Speaker 2: So right now, we're raising money for a, like, a medical office space, which

00:33:23.455 --> 00:33:25.740
Speaker 2: will probably be filled by the time this airs.

00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:28.700
Speaker 2: But just to give a little taste, and then we have, some land deals

00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:30.780
Speaker 2: that are going on right now also where we Okay.

00:33:30.780 --> 00:33:33.900
Speaker 2: Partner with the group that that honestly flips land.

00:33:33.900 --> 00:33:34.460
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:34.700
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:38.700
Speaker 2: That that that that return is higher, but it's also riskier

00:33:38.715 --> 00:33:42.715
Speaker 2: because your capital is tied to one deal versus a pool of of different

00:33:43.035 --> 00:33:44.155
Speaker 2: investments.

00:33:44.155 --> 00:33:44.635
Speaker 2: And land

00:33:44.635 --> 00:33:47.675
Speaker 0: land comes with its own landmine, so to speak, but it comes with its

00:33:47.675 --> 00:33:48.875
Speaker 0: own That's for sure.

00:33:48.875 --> 00:33:52.875
Speaker 0: It's tough to evaluate land, you know, or or value land,

00:33:53.290 --> 00:33:55.290
Speaker 0: as far as the property value.

00:33:55.290 --> 00:33:55.850
Speaker 0: Right.

00:33:55.850 --> 00:33:59.530
Speaker 0: You know, compared to, you know, comps on a on a residential, you know,

00:33:59.530 --> 00:34:01.130
Speaker 0: townhouse, that's fairly easy.

00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:04.650
Speaker 0: There's a pretty small range of the what the property value is gonna be.

00:34:04.650 --> 00:34:04.890
Speaker 0: Right?

00:34:04.890 --> 00:34:06.490
Speaker 0: Whereas land can be Right.

00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:06.730
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:34:06.730 --> 00:34:08.515
Speaker 0: A little bit of a different beast.

00:34:08.515 --> 00:34:12.515
Speaker 0: But, there are also are, you know, benefits to it as

00:34:12.515 --> 00:34:13.715
Speaker 0: well.

00:34:13.715 --> 00:34:17.395
Speaker 0: So those side deals are those are attached to your fund, or are those

00:34:17.395 --> 00:34:19.075
Speaker 0: completely separate from your fund?

00:34:19.075 --> 00:34:19.275
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:34:19.235 --> 00:34:20.355
Speaker 2: Those are completely separate.

00:34:20.355 --> 00:34:20.835
Speaker 2: Gotcha.

00:34:20.835 --> 00:34:22.115
Speaker 2: They they all roll into the fund.

00:34:22.115 --> 00:34:25.780
Speaker 2: It's under the same different I mean, legally, not to go into the jargon,

00:34:25.780 --> 00:34:26.020
Speaker 2: but Yeah.

00:34:26.020 --> 00:34:27.700
Speaker 2: Different set up for each each of the deals.

00:34:27.700 --> 00:34:28.500
Speaker 2: So Okay.

00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:29.220
Speaker 0: Got it.

00:34:29.220 --> 00:34:32.500
Speaker 0: And you just crossed ten million dollars in capital under management.

00:34:32.500 --> 00:34:36.180
Speaker 0: How did you do that in the last three years, basically?

00:34:36.180 --> 00:34:37.220
Speaker 0: A little over three years.

00:34:37.220 --> 00:34:38.535
Speaker 0: I mean, that that's pretty impressive.

00:34:38.535 --> 00:34:40.215
Speaker 0: How'd you do that?

00:34:40.215 --> 00:34:42.775
Speaker 2: So a lot of it is just getting out there and talking to people

00:34:42.775 --> 00:34:43.815
Speaker 2: and networking.

00:34:43.815 --> 00:34:46.215
Speaker 2: I thought it was gonna be way easier.

00:34:46.215 --> 00:34:48.935
Speaker 2: Because if you think about my career, right, I started at Vanguard, and Vanguard

00:34:48.935 --> 00:34:51.815
Speaker 2: manages something like eight trillion dollars today or something insane.

00:34:51.815 --> 00:34:52.055
Speaker 2: Right?

00:34:52.055 --> 00:34:52.800
Speaker 2: So So So

00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.080
Speaker 0: ten million is a joke.

00:34:54.080 --> 00:34:56.480
Speaker 0: Right?

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:57.520
Speaker 2: I wasn't raising that money.

00:34:57.520 --> 00:35:00.400
Speaker 2: But, anyway, so then I went down to the, advisory shop, and we were

00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:03.280
Speaker 2: managing one point five billion, still way more than ten million.

00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:03.520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:35:03.520 --> 00:35:06.240
Speaker 2: So I thought in my head, I would be able to leave that group

00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:08.515
Speaker 2: and raise this money super easy.

00:35:08.515 --> 00:35:12.515
Speaker 2: It's a different kind of raise just because we're one individual asset

00:35:12.595 --> 00:35:15.235
Speaker 2: while an adviser looks over the whole portfolio.

00:35:15.235 --> 00:35:17.155
Speaker 2: So it is a slightly different thing.

00:35:17.155 --> 00:35:17.715
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:35:17.715 --> 00:35:19.635
Speaker 2: But but, honestly, how I was able to do it is just getting out

00:35:19.635 --> 00:35:20.355
Speaker 2: there talking to people.

00:35:20.355 --> 00:35:22.380
Speaker 2: I've tried a bunch of different marketing techniques.

00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:22.700
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:35:22.700 --> 00:35:24.780
Speaker 2: Some have worked, some haven't.

00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:28.780
Speaker 2: But I found, frankly, what what works best is just, you know,

00:35:28.780 --> 00:35:30.780
Speaker 2: getting out there, talking to people.

00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:34.060
Speaker 2: And I'm finally to the point now, three and a half years in where

00:35:34.060 --> 00:35:36.775
Speaker 2: my clients are starting to refer other people.

00:35:36.775 --> 00:35:37.575
Speaker 0: That's true.

00:35:37.575 --> 00:35:39.815
Speaker 2: It takes a little bit of time to get there, obviously.

00:35:39.815 --> 00:35:41.335
Speaker 2: But once the ball is rolling

00:35:41.335 --> 00:35:42.375
Speaker 0: No.

00:35:42.375 --> 00:35:43.815
Speaker 0: And we've seen the most this year.

00:35:43.815 --> 00:35:44.215
Speaker 2: Sorry.

00:35:44.215 --> 00:35:44.615
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:35:44.615 --> 00:35:44.855
Speaker 0: No.

00:35:44.855 --> 00:35:48.855
Speaker 0: I'm just curious because, you know, they're like I said, there's we we don't

00:35:49.015 --> 00:35:52.220
Speaker 0: have much time, but it's a critical piece if you're gonna run a fund

00:35:52.220 --> 00:35:55.900
Speaker 0: or any kind of if you're gonna scale any kind of investment business, you're

00:35:55.900 --> 00:35:59.900
Speaker 0: gonna want access to other people's capital to put that to work to scale

00:35:59.980 --> 00:36:03.095
Speaker 0: your business, whether it's a fund or not.

00:36:03.095 --> 00:36:05.975
Speaker 0: Getting getting out there talking to people, you're just going to the grocery store

00:36:05.975 --> 00:36:06.855
Speaker 0: and approaching people?

00:36:06.855 --> 00:36:10.855
Speaker 0: Or, you know, like, specifically, what do you mean by that?

00:36:11.415 --> 00:36:15.415
Speaker 2: So I I I was going to a lot of, like,

00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:17.130
Speaker 2: like, real estate networking events.

00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:17.770
Speaker 2: I Yep.

00:36:17.770 --> 00:36:20.250
Speaker 2: Started a an email newsletter.

00:36:20.250 --> 00:36:22.250
Speaker 2: I would go to, like, chamber events.

00:36:22.250 --> 00:36:22.650
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:36:22.650 --> 00:36:26.650
Speaker 2: I literally went through every person I'd ever talked to, my old firm,

00:36:26.650 --> 00:36:29.575
Speaker 2: which is a lot of people, and just, like like, email them personally.

00:36:29.575 --> 00:36:29.895
Speaker 2: Like, hey.

00:36:29.895 --> 00:36:30.695
Speaker 2: I started this.

00:36:30.695 --> 00:36:33.335
Speaker 2: Like, would you be interested in having a conversation or just sitting out for

00:36:33.335 --> 00:36:33.975
Speaker 2: coffee?

00:36:33.975 --> 00:36:34.935
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:36:34.935 --> 00:36:36.455
Speaker 2: Or anyone who might be interested.

00:36:36.455 --> 00:36:37.095
Speaker 2: And, like Right.

00:36:37.095 --> 00:36:40.420
Speaker 2: After enough times like that, I mean Yeah.

00:36:40.420 --> 00:36:41.260
Speaker 2: You just Gotcha.

00:36:41.260 --> 00:36:43.420
Speaker 2: If you just keep it in the work and, like, you get lucky sometimes.

00:36:43.420 --> 00:36:43.620
Speaker 2: Right.

00:36:43.580 --> 00:36:44.300
Speaker 2: Right?

00:36:44.300 --> 00:36:47.020
Speaker 0: And then second part, I'm glad I remembered that I said there were two

00:36:47.020 --> 00:36:47.260
Speaker 0: parts.

00:36:47.260 --> 00:36:51.260
Speaker 0: But, how intentional are you about asking your current investors

00:36:51.660 --> 00:36:55.660
Speaker 0: for referrals, or does it kinda just happen naturally?

00:36:56.325 --> 00:36:58.485
Speaker 2: I should be more, intentional.

00:36:58.485 --> 00:37:00.565
Speaker 2: So I just went for the first time.

00:37:00.565 --> 00:37:02.805
Speaker 2: I needed to raise some more money for this.

00:37:02.805 --> 00:37:05.525
Speaker 2: I'm at a go off the space, and I just called everyone on my

00:37:05.525 --> 00:37:06.485
Speaker 2: on my on my list.

00:37:06.485 --> 00:37:09.740
Speaker 2: Right now, we have, fifty investors.

00:37:09.740 --> 00:37:10.620
Speaker 2: I just went down the list.

00:37:10.620 --> 00:37:12.220
Speaker 2: It took me a day, and I just called everyone.

00:37:12.220 --> 00:37:14.860
Speaker 2: Some people picked up, some people didn't or call me back.

00:37:14.860 --> 00:37:17.900
Speaker 2: But just by doing that, that was able to raise some money.

00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:18.540
Speaker 2: So K.

00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:21.775
Speaker 2: I don't have a regular cadence where I'm talking to them on the phone,

00:37:21.775 --> 00:37:24.815
Speaker 2: but they do my, like, a they do my kind of fun updates to

00:37:24.815 --> 00:37:28.255
Speaker 2: get the, like, the get the, like, like, a like, a weekly newsletter.

00:37:28.255 --> 00:37:29.855
Speaker 2: I'm on podcast like this every so often.

00:37:29.855 --> 00:37:30.575
Speaker 2: So I do Yeah.

00:37:30.575 --> 00:37:33.055
Speaker 2: Try to get content out there and make sure that I'm visible.

00:37:33.055 --> 00:37:34.575
Speaker 2: I'm not hiding in my little office here.

00:37:34.575 --> 00:37:35.670
Speaker 2: Right.

00:37:35.670 --> 00:37:39.270
Speaker 0: And speaking of that, what do you have a team, or is it just

00:37:39.270 --> 00:37:40.870
Speaker 0: you?

00:37:40.870 --> 00:37:41.190
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:37:41.190 --> 00:37:42.710
Speaker 2: So right now, it's myself.

00:37:42.710 --> 00:37:45.030
Speaker 2: I have four guys working for me.

00:37:45.030 --> 00:37:49.030
Speaker 2: They do a kinda combination of deal flow plus sales.

00:37:49.075 --> 00:37:51.875
Speaker 2: And I have three interns, that do kind of a sales tax for me

00:37:51.875 --> 00:37:52.275
Speaker 2: as well.

00:37:52.275 --> 00:37:52.475
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:37:52.435 --> 00:37:53.475
Speaker 0: You mentioned that to me before.

00:37:53.475 --> 00:37:55.395
Speaker 0: I think that's genius.

00:37:55.395 --> 00:37:56.675
Speaker 0: I wish we had more time here.

00:37:56.675 --> 00:37:58.275
Speaker 2: They're they're awesome, honestly.

00:37:58.275 --> 00:37:58.515
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:37:58.515 --> 00:38:01.715
Speaker 0: I mean, I I guess it's a you know, going in, it's not a

00:38:01.715 --> 00:38:04.035
Speaker 0: long term commitment, but I guess it could turn into one.

00:38:04.035 --> 00:38:05.450
Speaker 0: Right?

00:38:05.450 --> 00:38:05.690
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:38:05.690 --> 00:38:07.290
Speaker 2: They they they are they kinda on the onset?

00:38:07.290 --> 00:38:08.570
Speaker 2: This is not a long term commitment.

00:38:08.570 --> 00:38:10.250
Speaker 2: This is usually three months.

00:38:10.250 --> 00:38:12.730
Speaker 2: If if it's a little bit longer, it could turn into six months.

00:38:12.730 --> 00:38:13.850
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:38:13.850 --> 00:38:14.090
Speaker 0: Right.

00:38:14.090 --> 00:38:14.330
Speaker 0: But I

00:38:14.330 --> 00:38:16.810
Speaker 2: have kinda SOPs written out for all of them right now, so it's a

00:38:16.810 --> 00:38:17.690
Speaker 2: very easy plug and play.

00:38:17.690 --> 00:38:21.585
Speaker 2: And I don't have them doing crazy detailed work that's going to affect the

00:38:21.585 --> 00:38:23.585
Speaker 2: business, but it is stuff that I need to get done.

00:38:23.585 --> 00:38:25.345
Speaker 2: I'm not doing them fluff work.

00:38:25.345 --> 00:38:25.905
Speaker 0: Sure.

00:38:25.905 --> 00:38:26.545
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:38:26.545 --> 00:38:27.665
Speaker 0: We're almost out of time.

00:38:27.665 --> 00:38:29.745
Speaker 0: I've got some rapid fire questions for you.

00:38:29.745 --> 00:38:30.625
Speaker 0: You ready?

00:38:30.625 --> 00:38:31.265
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

00:38:31.265 --> 00:38:32.065
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:38:32.065 --> 00:38:36.065
Speaker 0: How has financial abundance made your life better?

00:38:36.910 --> 00:38:40.830
Speaker 2: How has financial abundance made my life better?

00:38:40.830 --> 00:38:43.870
Speaker 2: I was able to buy a bigger house than my wife.

00:38:43.870 --> 00:38:47.870
Speaker 2: I had bigger plans for my daughter who's now fifteen months old to, send

00:38:47.870 --> 00:38:51.870
Speaker 2: her to kind of the best schools that I can afford in the area.

00:38:52.095 --> 00:38:53.535
Speaker 2: We've taken awesome trips.

00:38:53.535 --> 00:38:56.015
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll think of those are kinda my top area.

00:38:56.015 --> 00:39:00.015
Speaker 0: What's a book or two that you could recommend for our listener?

00:39:00.095 --> 00:39:04.095
Speaker 2: Book or two.

00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:05.470
Speaker 2: I'm reading a book right now.

00:39:05.470 --> 00:39:08.510
Speaker 2: It's not real estate related, but it's good kind of mindset book.

00:39:08.510 --> 00:39:08.990
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:39:08.990 --> 00:39:11.630
Speaker 2: It's called the twelve hour walk by Colin O'Brady, I think it is.

00:39:11.630 --> 00:39:12.190
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if

00:39:12.190 --> 00:39:12.830
Speaker 0: you've heard of that.

00:39:12.830 --> 00:39:13.150
Speaker 0: No.

00:39:13.150 --> 00:39:13.790
Speaker 0: I'm super

00:39:13.790 --> 00:39:17.295
Speaker 2: I'm inspirational about a guy who set the world record.

00:39:17.295 --> 00:39:21.295
Speaker 2: He's the first one to walk across Antarctica with that

00:39:21.375 --> 00:39:23.135
Speaker 2: without any help.

00:39:23.135 --> 00:39:26.975
Speaker 2: So he's like he's like like, I'm dredging with this with this massive thing.

00:39:26.975 --> 00:39:27.855
Speaker 2: Anyway Yeah.

00:39:27.855 --> 00:39:28.095
Speaker 2: That's a

00:39:28.095 --> 00:39:28.820
Speaker 0: good thing.

00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:29.140
Speaker 0: Okay.

00:39:29.140 --> 00:39:32.660
Speaker 2: I'm gonna look at my bookshelf right now.

00:39:32.660 --> 00:39:34.980
Speaker 2: What's another good one that that I can recommend?

00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:36.020
Speaker 2: Well, I'll stick with that one.

00:39:36.020 --> 00:39:37.380
Speaker 2: I don't wanna just come up with something.

00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.980
Speaker 0: How about if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, no strings attached, what

00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:43.895
Speaker 0: would you do with it?

00:39:43.895 --> 00:39:46.615
Speaker 2: Ten million dollars, no strings attached?

00:39:46.615 --> 00:39:48.535
Speaker 2: I would invest it.

00:39:48.535 --> 00:39:49.975
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:39:49.975 --> 00:39:53.975
Speaker 2: I would invest it well, first, I I would take my time investing it.

00:39:53.975 --> 00:39:56.055
Speaker 2: I found a lot of people, once they get cash, they put it to

00:39:56.055 --> 00:39:58.160
Speaker 2: work too fast, including myself in the past.

00:39:58.160 --> 00:39:58.880
Speaker 0: That's that's smart.

00:39:58.880 --> 00:39:59.760
Speaker 2: So Yeah.

00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.720
Speaker 2: I would either put it in a treasury bond just to kinda hold it

00:40:02.720 --> 00:40:05.840
Speaker 2: for a little bit and make sure I make the right decisions, or just

00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.400
Speaker 2: put it in the, S and P and then take out a line of

00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:11.225
Speaker 2: credit to invest off of off of the off of that line.

00:40:11.225 --> 00:40:12.345
Speaker 0: So you can do that.

00:40:12.345 --> 00:40:14.265
Speaker 0: What is there a max?

00:40:14.265 --> 00:40:16.345
Speaker 0: Is it fifty percent, or how does that work?

00:40:16.345 --> 00:40:17.145
Speaker 0: A line of credit on It

00:40:17.145 --> 00:40:18.185
Speaker 2: depends what asset you're in.

00:40:18.185 --> 00:40:20.745
Speaker 2: But if you're in the S and P five hundred, you can usually depending

00:40:20.745 --> 00:40:23.785
Speaker 2: on your, brokerage, you can usually leverage about seventy percent of that.

00:40:23.785 --> 00:40:25.945
Speaker 2: So if you have ten million bucks, you can write a check to yourself

00:40:25.945 --> 00:40:27.090
Speaker 2: for seven million.

00:40:27.090 --> 00:40:28.850
Speaker 2: You have to pay interest on that, obviously.

00:40:28.850 --> 00:40:29.090
Speaker 0: Right.

00:40:29.090 --> 00:40:31.970
Speaker 0: And you just go to your brokerage to do that?

00:40:31.970 --> 00:40:32.290
Speaker 0: Or

00:40:32.290 --> 00:40:32.530
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:34.530
Speaker 2: So Schwab or Fidelity or really anyone.

00:40:34.530 --> 00:40:36.850
Speaker 0: They're the ones that issue the line of credit.

00:40:36.850 --> 00:40:37.050
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:39.570
Speaker 2: You you deposit the money, and then they have a direct line.

00:40:39.570 --> 00:40:40.450
Speaker 2: You call and say, hey.

00:40:40.450 --> 00:40:43.065
Speaker 2: I wanna open up a pledged asset line.

00:40:43.065 --> 00:40:43.945
Speaker 2: And then they say, okay.

00:40:43.945 --> 00:40:44.985
Speaker 2: We I I know it

00:40:44.985 --> 00:40:47.225
Speaker 0: I knew it existed, but I've just never entertained that.

00:40:47.225 --> 00:40:47.425
Speaker 0: So

00:40:47.385 --> 00:40:48.185
Speaker 2: It's the HELOC.

00:40:48.185 --> 00:40:48.385
Speaker 2: Right?

00:40:48.345 --> 00:40:50.665
Speaker 2: If you think about the same thing, you're just leveraging an asset.

00:40:50.665 --> 00:40:50.985
Speaker 2: Right?

00:40:50.985 --> 00:40:52.905
Speaker 0: Fair.

00:40:52.905 --> 00:40:53.625
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:40:53.625 --> 00:40:56.905
Speaker 0: What's one piece of advice you would give to someone starting out in real

00:40:56.905 --> 00:40:59.020
Speaker 0: estate investing?

00:40:59.020 --> 00:40:59.260
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:01.100
Speaker 2: And we talked about this a little bit prior to the call, but I

00:41:01.100 --> 00:41:05.100
Speaker 2: think I think the biggest hack that used to be super popular on BiggerPockets

00:41:05.580 --> 00:41:08.060
Speaker 2: and all the other shows, which I haven't heard much since, maybe I'm just

00:41:08.060 --> 00:41:09.020
Speaker 2: not listening to these podcasts.

00:41:09.020 --> 00:41:12.775
Speaker 2: But if I could if I could house hack again, I think that's the

00:41:12.775 --> 00:41:13.495
Speaker 2: biggest unlock.

00:41:13.495 --> 00:41:17.495
Speaker 2: If you're if you're someone who's younger, single, once again, real estate

00:41:17.495 --> 00:41:20.375
Speaker 2: and doesn't have a lot a, like, a super high paying job, I would

00:41:20.375 --> 00:41:24.375
Speaker 2: try to find a piece of real estate that's moderately priced,

00:41:24.375 --> 00:41:28.375
Speaker 2: put down three to five percent, and rent the other two

00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:28.660
Speaker 2: rooms.

00:41:28.660 --> 00:41:30.820
Speaker 2: You can still make it I mean, it might not be one for one

00:41:30.820 --> 00:41:32.820
Speaker 2: where you don't we can live for free, but at least give you the

00:41:32.820 --> 00:41:36.740
Speaker 2: freedom to use the money you make to put into other things or stack

00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:38.260
Speaker 2: cash for your next real estate property or

00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:39.620
Speaker 0: what what what whatever

00:41:39.620 --> 00:41:40.580
Speaker 2: you're kind of saving for.

00:41:40.580 --> 00:41:42.285
Speaker 0: I couldn't agree more.

00:41:42.285 --> 00:41:43.165
Speaker 2: To you again.

00:41:43.165 --> 00:41:45.885
Speaker 0: I think it's really smart.

00:41:45.885 --> 00:41:47.485
Speaker 0: And I do think you were house hacking.

00:41:47.485 --> 00:41:49.805
Speaker 0: I mean, I don't know what the technical definition is.

00:41:49.805 --> 00:41:53.805
Speaker 0: I know Brandon Turner used to take credit for for that term, but I

00:41:53.965 --> 00:41:55.760
Speaker 0: it's been done for years.

00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:56.880
Speaker 0: And I you know?

00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:57.200
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:41:57.200 --> 00:41:57.920
Speaker 0: Just because you

00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.680
Speaker 2: were breaking no expertise.

00:41:59.680 --> 00:42:00.240
Speaker 0: What's that?

00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:00.640
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:42:00.640 --> 00:42:01.120
Speaker 2: Right.

00:42:01.120 --> 00:42:02.480
Speaker 2: It also requires no expertise.

00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:03.840
Speaker 2: Like, it's not like a flip where, like, hey.

00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:04.960
Speaker 2: Should know the right contractor.

00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:06.720
Speaker 2: You should know a little bit about how this works.

00:42:06.720 --> 00:42:07.200
Speaker 0: Right.

00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:09.835
Speaker 2: All you need to do is know how to buy the house and then

00:42:09.835 --> 00:42:10.875
Speaker 2: find people Yeah.

00:42:10.875 --> 00:42:12.635
Speaker 2: And obviously vet them properly.

00:42:12.635 --> 00:42:14.875
Speaker 2: But you can just get your buddies moving.

00:42:14.875 --> 00:42:16.075
Speaker 0: Absolutely.

00:42:16.075 --> 00:42:16.635
Speaker 0: Alright, Craig.

00:42:16.635 --> 00:42:18.155
Speaker 0: Two more questions.

00:42:18.155 --> 00:42:22.155
Speaker 0: First one is, what's one question that I have not asked you that you

00:42:22.315 --> 00:42:24.200
Speaker 0: wish I had?

00:42:24.200 --> 00:42:25.080
Speaker 2: Oh, boy.

00:42:25.080 --> 00:42:26.120
Speaker 2: Put me on the spot on that one.

00:42:26.120 --> 00:42:29.800
Speaker 2: That was that's that's a tough one.

00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:33.560
Speaker 0: That's what you're, that's what a lot of, investors

00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:34.680
Speaker 2: Plans for the future.

00:42:34.680 --> 00:42:35.320
Speaker 0: Like to ask.

00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:36.440
Speaker 0: Plans for the future.

00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:36.920
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:40.920
Speaker 0: Well, I thought about asking where things gonna go in the market, but,

00:42:41.195 --> 00:42:41.435
Speaker 0: yeah.

00:42:41.435 --> 00:42:43.995
Speaker 0: So what are your plans for with the fund or anything else in the

00:42:43.995 --> 00:42:46.235
Speaker 0: future?

00:42:46.235 --> 00:42:46.475
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:42:46.475 --> 00:42:48.795
Speaker 2: So I don't I guess, for for me, for the fund for the future,

00:42:48.795 --> 00:42:51.930
Speaker 2: I don't see this being a billion dollar strategy.

00:42:51.930 --> 00:42:52.490
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:42:52.490 --> 00:42:55.050
Speaker 2: My goal is to get this to about two hundred million dollars, to be

00:42:55.050 --> 00:42:55.450
Speaker 2: honest with you.

00:42:55.450 --> 00:42:58.170
Speaker 2: I think I think we can do that over the next

00:42:58.170 --> 00:42:59.370
Speaker 2: five to ten years.

00:42:59.370 --> 00:43:01.130
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:43:01.130 --> 00:43:03.690
Speaker 2: And and I think I think at that point, like, I can make the

00:43:03.690 --> 00:43:07.115
Speaker 2: decision then to to hire more analysts and make this a really big thing

00:43:07.115 --> 00:43:07.835
Speaker 2: or or Mhmm.

00:43:07.835 --> 00:43:11.035
Speaker 2: I think we can scale it with how we are currently structured up to

00:43:11.035 --> 00:43:14.955
Speaker 2: about a hundred before we before we start hiring real personnel.

00:43:14.955 --> 00:43:15.355
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:43:15.355 --> 00:43:17.595
Speaker 2: So that's kind of the vision for the fund.

00:43:17.595 --> 00:43:18.540
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:43:18.540 --> 00:43:18.780
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:18.980
Speaker 2: So

00:43:18.940 --> 00:43:21.100
Speaker 0: you're just getting started, sounds like.

00:43:21.100 --> 00:43:21.660
Speaker 2: That's right.

00:43:21.660 --> 00:43:22.620
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:43:22.620 --> 00:43:22.860
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:26.060
Speaker 0: So, technically, I already I asked two, but here's the third.

00:43:26.060 --> 00:43:29.420
Speaker 0: Where can our our listeners find you online?

00:43:29.420 --> 00:43:29.620
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:43:29.580 --> 00:43:30.460
Speaker 2: So I'm on LinkedIn.

00:43:30.460 --> 00:43:32.935
Speaker 2: You can find me there at Craig Epler.

00:43:32.935 --> 00:43:36.615
Speaker 2: Our website is Epler Capital dot com.

00:43:36.615 --> 00:43:39.575
Speaker 2: And I would say those are the two, two best ways.

00:43:39.575 --> 00:43:42.215
Speaker 2: I'm not very much on Twitter or anything like that, but I'm on Instagram

00:43:42.215 --> 00:43:45.495
Speaker 2: and and and Facebook, but you'll find all that stuff on LinkedIn also.

00:43:45.495 --> 00:43:46.520
Speaker 2: Perfect.

00:43:46.520 --> 00:43:46.720
Speaker 0: Alright.

00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:48.360
Speaker 0: We'll put all that in the show notes as well.

00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:49.160
Speaker 0: So Awesome.

00:43:49.160 --> 00:43:53.000
Speaker 0: Craig Guffler, thanks so much for having or for spending your time with us

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.440
Speaker 0: and for sharing your story.

00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:58.440
Speaker 0: And, it's pretty cool what you've been able to accomplish, and it sounds

00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.385
Speaker 0: like you're, you know, you'd like I said, you're just getting started.

00:44:01.385 --> 00:44:03.945
Speaker 0: So appreciate the time, Craig.

00:44:03.945 --> 00:44:04.185
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:44:04.185 --> 00:44:04.865
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Jimmy.

00:44:04.865 --> 00:44:05.785
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

00:44:05.785 --> 00:44:07.065
Speaker 0: And thank you to the listener.

00:44:07.065 --> 00:44:11.065
Speaker 0: Thanks for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time.

00:44:11.145 --> 00:44:12.105
Speaker 0: Thanks, everyone.

00:44:12.105 --> 00:44:16.105
Speaker 0: Take care.

00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:21.960
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance.

00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.960
Speaker 1: We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice

00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:28.725
Speaker 1: to elevate your real estate journey.

00:44:28.725 --> 00:44:32.725
Speaker 1: For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w

00:44:32.965 --> 00:44:35.765
Speaker 1: dot adversity to abundance dot com.

00:44:35.765 --> 00:44:39.445
Speaker 1: If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could

00:44:39.445 --> 00:44:41.780
Speaker 1: also benefit from our conversation.

00:44:41.780 --> 00:44:44.740
Speaker 1: Together, let's turn adversity into abundance.

00:44:44.740 --> 00:44:46.740
Speaker 1: Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.