Episode Rerun: From Personal Pain to Paper Profits with Mortgage Note Investor Justin Bogard

0:00 Speaker 0: Hey, guys. Speaker 0: In this episode, I sat down with Justin Bogard and Speaker 0: got a chance to talk with him. Speaker 0: He's a mortgage note investor like I am. Speaker 0: He runs a note fund, and he focuses on seller Speaker 0: financed notes. Speaker 0: We talk a lot about, relationship challenges and a Speaker 0: some personal, you know, family challenges and divorce that he's been through, Speaker 0: which unfortunately is very relatable for a lot of people. Speaker 0: And then we also talk about some, Speaker 0: instances where he's lost a good bit of money in real estate transactions and Speaker 0: the lessons he's learned from that. Speaker 0: We talk about how he the discipline and Speaker 0: other principles he's gathered from his background in athletics Speaker 0: as well and talk about, you know, the importance of structure and, Speaker 0: communication.

0:50 Speaker 0: With that said, we also discuss how he's never going Speaker 0: back to what he refers to as w two jail. Speaker 0: So I think, you know, because he puts this discipline and structure in place, Speaker 0: he's that enables him to have freedom and Speaker 0: go play golf when he wants to and go to his daughter's events when Speaker 0: he wants to and that kind of thing. Speaker 0: So it's a really, relatable episode. Speaker 0: We talk a lot about family and work life balance and and, Speaker 0: things that I think, you know, if you're on the the edge about becoming Speaker 0: an entrepreneur or becoming an investor, specifically with regard to real Speaker 0: estate and mortgage notes, this episode is one you're not gonna wanna miss.

1:31 Speaker 1: From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and Speaker 1: seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide Speaker 1: for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and Speaker 1: the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. Speaker 1: With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and Speaker 1: a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and Speaker 1: multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth Speaker 1: of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Speaker 1: Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders Speaker 1: and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners Speaker 1: will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges Speaker 1: and build lasting financial success.

2:18 Speaker 1: Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity Speaker 1: to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities Speaker 1: and achieving financial freedom. Speaker 0: Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. Speaker 0: I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us Speaker 0: Justin Bogard. Speaker 0: Justin, how are you doing? Speaker 2: I'm doing awesome, Jamie. Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on your show. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: Justin, you are one of the founders of American Note Buyers, Speaker 0: among other things. Speaker 0: I know, you and I have gotten to know each other a little bit Speaker 0: better over the last couple years, and I'm really excited to dive in here.

3:05 Speaker 0: For the audience out there, for the listener, who are you, and why Speaker 0: should we listen to you? Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: So my name is Justin Bogart as as, Jamie pointed out. Speaker 2: I am a real estate note investor. Speaker 2: I cofounded, American Note Buyers with, my business partner, Speaker 2: Richard Thornton. Speaker 2: And so I run the operations of the business, and we manage Speaker 2: a real estate fund. Speaker 0: Awesome. Speaker 0: That's cool. Speaker 0: So now just, obviously, you and I Speaker 0: are somewhat in the same space, but basically in the same professional space. Speaker 0: We have a little bit of a different approach to our how we run Speaker 0: our business businesses. Speaker 0: But, for the, listener out there who's unfamiliar with, you know, mortgage Speaker 0: notes or how that works, what is what do you you know, what what Speaker 0: is it that your business actually does in a little bit more detail?

3:55 Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So we specialize in what we call mom and pop seller finance Speaker 2: notes. Speaker 2: We we purchase them for the, the purpose of buying the performing cash Speaker 2: flow, and then we end up, reselling those notes in, Speaker 2: in volume later after we hold them for for a year or two. Speaker 2: And that's the purpose for our fund right now. Speaker 0: Awesome. Speaker 0: Perfect. Speaker 0: I know we're gonna come back to that in a little bit and dive Speaker 0: into your business and and, you know, the different types Speaker 0: of, people you work with and who you serve and that kind of thing. Speaker 0: Let's jump into your backstory, Justin. Speaker 0: I know you've been through some some hard times, and and, obviously, this Speaker 0: show is called from adversity to abundance.

4:36 Speaker 0: And, like, we briefly mentioned before we hit record, everyone's story is Speaker 0: different, and everyone's version of adversity, everyone's, Speaker 0: you know, picture of abundance is different, but that's what makes your Speaker 0: story, unique, and that's why we wanna hear about it. Speaker 0: So, where do you wanna start off? Speaker 2: Oh, we can start wherever. Speaker 2: I I like to, Speaker 2: when people work with me with investors that wanna invest in our fund or Speaker 2: clients that want to purchase notes from us and kinda continue a long term Speaker 2: relationship with them, they they kinda wanna know the the man that I am Speaker 2: and the the characters that I have. Speaker 2: And I I always root that back to my sports days, Speaker 2: growing up.

5:17 Speaker 2: So Yeah. Speaker 2: My dad, is still is a big sports Speaker 2: fanatic. Speaker 2: He loves sports, and he grew up with, nine Speaker 2: other brothers and sisters. Speaker 2: So he's a family of ten. Speaker 2: His mom was a family of twelve. Speaker 2: She's part of twelve siblings. Speaker 2: So they they come from a very big family. Speaker 2: So, this was he grew up in the fifties Speaker 2: and sixties. Speaker 2: So Mhmm. Speaker 2: He had to share a bedroom, with a brother, one of his one or Speaker 2: two of his brothers his whole life until he moved up to college. Speaker 2: And then he finally, you know, got to be on his own. Speaker 2: So he he always was playing sports. Speaker 2: He was always doing things. Speaker 2: He was very active in general. Speaker 2: And, you know, still today, he he can't sit still.

5:57 Speaker 2: So when I was growing up, you know, I I'm the only boy in Speaker 2: the family. Speaker 2: I have two older sisters. Speaker 2: Oldest one's about eight years older than me. Speaker 2: And so I was always in sports, which which I wanted to do because, Speaker 2: you know, I'm a kid. Speaker 2: I want baseball. Speaker 2: I wanna do soccer. Speaker 2: I wanna do swimming, football, basketball, you know, all that stuff. Speaker 2: So my dad would always push me to do that stuff and was always, Speaker 2: you know, Speaker 2: practicing with me and stuff. Speaker 2: So I that became a big part of my life. Speaker 2: And so as I got better in certain sports, in certain sports I didn't Speaker 2: excel in, it happened to be swimming was the best sport that I excelled Speaker 2: in. Speaker 2: So I ended up doing that kinda year round. Speaker 2: And and and as I got better, I had, you know, different coaches and Speaker 2: was pushed different ways, and that kinda developed me into a very having structured Speaker 2: environment.

6:43 Speaker 2: And then also not having time to do anything else. Speaker 2: As you know, Jamie, you play up lacrosse and stuff. Speaker 0: Yep. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 2: So I I was always driven that way. Speaker 2: I I ended up, being in the Indiana Speaker 2: state finals my senior year for, swimming. Speaker 2: And so I we had a medley relay team and I was in an Speaker 2: individual's, event, a hundred meter hundred yard brushstroke. Speaker 2: Excuse me. Speaker 2: And so that that was kind of my biggest achievement. Speaker 2: I ended up going to college because of it, getting a scholarship. Speaker 0: Nice. Speaker 0: I used to Speaker 2: go to college and I swam in the junior college, national championships for two Speaker 2: years in a row. Speaker 2: Qualified for the US Open in the two hundred yard breaststroke, Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine.

7:24 Speaker 2: Wow. Speaker 2: Didn't go to the US Open, but I did qualify for it. Speaker 2: I kinda reached the pinnacle of where I could. Speaker 2: I actually qualified by one one hundredth of a second. Speaker 2: So it's just like, you know, the the length of a of a the Speaker 2: thickness of a hair, you know, is how I would describe it as how Speaker 2: I got that cut. Speaker 2: But, I I just with all the training, those of you that are Speaker 2: athletes, you kinda understand what you have to go through with your body mentally. Speaker 0: Definitely. Speaker 2: Mentally, your body physically, obviously, have to go through. Speaker 2: So that's kinda where my discipline, my strive, my determination, my my never Speaker 2: really quit attitude, never never give up attitude. Speaker 2: It kinda derives from that. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I love it. Speaker 0: And, I mean, I I come from a big family myself, and we were Speaker 0: all athletes.

8:06 Speaker 0: And, you know, I can relate on many levels. Speaker 0: You know, I think team sports and individual sports obviously teach Speaker 0: slightly different lessons, but I think just there's so much you can draw from Speaker 0: sports in general and just so many life lessons I I think are, Speaker 0: you know, very applicable. Speaker 0: My my daughter through her school is she has to pick it after Speaker 0: school activity and tends to be sports. Speaker 0: And I you know, she's not gonna be a professional athlete Yeah. Speaker 0: Most likely. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: That's okay. Speaker 0: I think, there's so much you can apply from sports. Speaker 0: I love it. Speaker 0: And like you alluded to, the the the discipline, not just I mean, Speaker 0: just the structure of, Speaker 0: you know, I I just think when you're not involved in a sport Speaker 0: where you're working toward a goal and training and focused on accomplishing something, Speaker 0: you just tend to people tend to drift and Speaker 0: not do as well academically or whatever else.

9:05 Speaker 0: And, of course, a lot of these lessons you can learn from other, you Speaker 0: know, things outside of sports, but I think sports naturally lend themselves Speaker 0: to teach these act these, lessons. Speaker 0: So Speaker 0: okay. Speaker 0: So you did the junior college swimming thing and, Speaker 0: you know, in in a very impressive way, and then, and then what happened? Speaker 2: So I ended up doing another year. Speaker 2: Junior college is only for two years for for those of you that don't Speaker 2: know that. Speaker 2: And so I did another year at, our Indianapolis College, IUPUI, Speaker 2: studying for computer science and math. Speaker 2: And I ended up not graduating on purpose. Speaker 2: I actually quit quit college, and I ended up working for Speaker 2: a temp agency that kinda put me in a job opportunity Speaker 2: for working for, a printing company of all places.

9:53 Speaker 2: So I I figured out how to use my computer skills to help that Speaker 2: company out and ended up managing to being their database manager and IT Speaker 2: type of manager. Speaker 2: And so I just kinda went from there to another mail company slash print Speaker 2: company and then went to another mail slash print company and kinda built myself Speaker 2: up in middle management. Speaker 2: So I got a lot of training and skills on how to be a Speaker 2: manager and then also how to, you know, be heavily involved in in the Speaker 2: data data mining of of those companies. Speaker 0: Now what did you did you choose I mean, why did you choose computer Speaker 0: science? Speaker 0: Was it you were good at it, or you thought it would be you Speaker 0: know, could find a high paying job or a combination? Speaker 2: All all the above, really. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: At the time see, I graduated high school in nineteen ninety seven.

10:35 Speaker 2: So I was in college from, you know, ninety eight to two thousand, two Speaker 2: thousand one. Speaker 2: And at the time, you know, the the dot com bubble was out there. Speaker 2: And so having an online presence, using computer skills, getting Speaker 2: certain programming languages was a big push because the whole world was starting Speaker 2: to really understand that, you know, computer science is Speaker 2: really the future Speaker 0: of Speaker 2: what we need for software and hardware. Speaker 2: So all that stuff interests me, probably more hardware than software. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: Well, Speaker 2: I actually ended up doing some electrical engineering, Speaker 2: classes as well. Speaker 2: And so all that stuff kinda interests me. Speaker 2: I'm I'm a very hands on type of person. Speaker 2: I I don't like to read instructions, surprise, surprise, being a man.

11:17 Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: But I do like to reverse engineer how things work, and I do like Speaker 2: to look at a problem and solve it on my own. Speaker 2: I that that challenge is very, Speaker 2: relaxing to me, if if you can if you can say that. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: I I like that. Speaker 2: So, like, when my mom would buy things for, she had a a small Speaker 2: beauty salon, so she would buy, like, certain chairs or certain equipment. Speaker 2: She would ask me to put them together. Speaker 2: Like, I would just like to put it together. Speaker 2: I learned how to work on cars, like, by myself just reading, you know, Speaker 2: magazines and books and stuff. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: All those things just interest me being being mechanically minded like that. Speaker 2: And so that was the computer science part was obviously a lot less physical Speaker 2: work. Speaker 2: So it was just, you know, using a keyboard in your mind.

11:58 Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: That that's really what interests me in computer science. Speaker 0: Makes sense. Speaker 0: Alright. Speaker 0: So and then why did you quit college? Speaker 0: Is that was it just not going well, or was that it more of Speaker 0: an intentional decision that you didn't didn't wanna go that route? Speaker 2: Both. Speaker 2: So I I didn't do well in school and in college. Speaker 2: I didn't get very good grades. Speaker 2: I was probably more or less a c b student in high school and Speaker 2: in college. Speaker 2: I I did put forth the best effort that I could with having a Speaker 2: full swimming schedule as well, and it was very difficult. Speaker 2: Not asking for anybody's pity for that, but it was difficult because Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: I never been pushed in school before. Speaker 2: So I found out very quickly that I just wasn't built well to take Speaker 2: tests and wasn't built well to be in a classroom environment like that per Speaker 2: se.

12:41 Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: So I needed to learn things on my own and be a lot more Speaker 2: visual. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So I decided that I wanted to get into the workforce and and use Speaker 2: what I know to start getting a job instead of going through school again. Speaker 2: It was just, it was like, how do I describe it, nails on a Speaker 2: chalkboard for me to be in school. Speaker 2: So I I I don't say that for anyone listening to not go to Speaker 2: school if anybody else is listening on this podcast. Speaker 2: I just say that because it just didn't work for me. Speaker 2: It didn't fit me. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I'm not gonna push my kids to go to school if they don't want Speaker 2: to as far as That Speaker 0: was my next question, actually. Speaker 0: I know you have kids and, you know, what's your what's your advice to Speaker 0: your your kids about college? Speaker 2: So I've talked my daughters are nine and eleven right now, and they they Speaker 2: are I'm not sure if I told them I didn't finish college or not.

13:23 Speaker 2: I think I might have told the oldest one, but I've already told them Speaker 2: that they they choose what they wanna do as far as what they wanna Speaker 2: be when they grow up. Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to involve college, and it can if you want. Speaker 2: But it's not it's not a big push for me, and they know that Speaker 2: coming from me and and from their mom too. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 0: I think you were just cutting edge. Speaker 0: I mean, now it seems like college might be, not as necessary. Speaker 0: So we'll just say that you you are a trendsetter. Speaker 2: Well, I'll I'll I'll just say this not to digress too much, but Speaker 2: specialty seminars are really, like, master's degree Speaker 2: in your in your craft. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So what we do, Jamie, if if we were to take, certain Speaker 2: mentorship programs, like, out out of high school or after a few years of Speaker 2: college, it would it would have benefited us greatly to what we are today.

14:13 Speaker 2: We probably could have fast tracked, you know, ten ten eight to ten years Speaker 2: of our life just by going through specialty, note note training or Speaker 2: real estate training, right out of college or right out of high school as Speaker 2: opposed to going to college just to get, you know, a a general education Speaker 2: with a specific minor. Speaker 0: For sure. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I I've talked before about how I had I ended up working for a Speaker 0: title company. Speaker 0: I Yeah. Speaker 0: Realized how little I knew about any of that's what Yeah. Speaker 0: What's how what's the settlement statement? Speaker 0: What is title insurance? Speaker 0: You know? Speaker 0: Still don't understand that. Speaker 0: Well, yeah, that's that's a good point. Speaker 0: But, you know, it's pretty important to understand at least how, Speaker 0: you know, these transactions work, but certainly not something I learned in school.

14:54 Speaker 0: But, so, yeah, let's fast forward a little bit. Speaker 0: I mean, obviously, the we're gonna hit on some of the, the Speaker 0: adversity. Speaker 0: I know you I know you what you've talked about is already you know, Speaker 0: we've been through challenges up to, you know, what we've talked about already, but Speaker 0: let's kind of focus on some of the more serious, adversity Speaker 0: that you ended up facing. Speaker 2: So what I talked about so far is not real world problem stuff. Speaker 2: It's not it's not even a problem in anyone else's eyes. Speaker 2: I I was pretty fortunate. Speaker 2: I I have a mom and dad that worked, one one to two jobs, Speaker 2: and they worked all the time, and they provided for us. Speaker 2: We had a nice home. Speaker 2: We we always had clothes on our backs, and we had food in our Speaker 2: belly, so we're very grateful for that opportunity. Speaker 0: Mhmm.

15:34 Speaker 0: They Speaker 2: pushed us in sports. Speaker 2: They pushed us in school and stuff. Speaker 2: So, you know, that part of it, I def definitely no no adversity there. Speaker 2: Just just my own, trying trying to get through life, you know, the sort Speaker 2: of normal way. Speaker 2: So, I end up getting married probably in my Speaker 2: early thirties, I think, to my to my first wife. Speaker 2: And so then we had a kid shortly after that. Speaker 2: So, obviously, you know, my daughter's eleven, so it was about twelve years ago Speaker 2: when I when I first got married fast forward from from today. Speaker 2: And so that that marriage didn't, last very long. Speaker 2: I think we were married for about four or five years. Speaker 2: And it was I thought I married my best friend, and it didn't Speaker 2: turn out to be that way.

16:14 Speaker 2: There was a lot of, you know, problems with with relationships is Speaker 2: not success that I've had Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: Just just as just as an individual in relationships. Speaker 2: So, Speaker 2: lo and behold, I find out that, you know, there's a lot of drinking Speaker 2: involved. Speaker 2: You know, she was drinking a lot, and she ended up, cheating on me Speaker 2: as well Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: A Speaker 2: couple of times. Speaker 2: So it was pretty devastating to find that out because it's just like, you Speaker 2: know, you got hit in the face all of a sudden. Speaker 2: You're just like, where where did this come from? Speaker 2: Like, who Who's this person? Speaker 2: Like, yes. Speaker 2: You weren't that person yesterday. Speaker 2: Like, what what's going on? Speaker 2: So, you know, we we did go through counseling and stuff to try to Speaker 2: work through some of our stuff, and that's kinda how all this this bled Speaker 2: out. Speaker 2: So that was about a a year and a half to two years worth Speaker 2: of of dealing with this, this person's you know, the uncertainty Speaker 2: of understanding, like, what what's going on with you?

17:01 Speaker 2: Are you okay? Speaker 2: You know, why are you doing this? Speaker 2: And, it was just things that I would I just didn't notice when I Speaker 2: was, when we were together and we got married. Speaker 2: And so that was kind of a a huge that's probably been the biggest, Speaker 2: adversity I had to come over my life was just understanding why that happened. Speaker 2: And Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I appreciate you Yeah. Speaker 0: Sharing. Speaker 0: It's not a it's not always, you know, necessarily how you wanna spend your Speaker 0: days, you know, talk about your your divorce and all this. Speaker 2: But I've never openly talked about that over over the air. Speaker 2: Like, I those of you that don't know me, I have my own podcast, Speaker 2: and I have my own most live monthly broadcast that I've done for Speaker 0: the Speaker 2: past five or six years, and I I don't openly talk about my problems Speaker 2: or or do anything on Facebook like that.

17:43 Speaker 0: But Yeah. Speaker 2: But, yeah, it it affected me in a way that I I can't I Speaker 2: can't describe unless you've gone through it because I just started a business. Speaker 0: You had just started a job? Speaker 0: Uh-huh. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: About a year. Speaker 0: A little bit, you know, we don't have to drill down on the the Speaker 0: stuff you've already mentioned, but give us a little more context as far as Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: You had one child together, at that point? Speaker 0: Or Speaker 2: We actually had both of our kids at that point. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 2: Like Makes sense. Speaker 0: The girls were, Yeah. Speaker 0: That makes sense. Speaker 2: They were four years old and two years old. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: So you had two two girls together, and then, and you had just started Speaker 0: a business, you said? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So she she had went out on her own first and decided to be Speaker 2: kind of a, what I call, print broker.

18:27 Speaker 2: So she would work with different clients that would need printing material done, Speaker 2: like, in the large magazines and stuff like that. Speaker 2: So, we I kinda helped her with that on the side. Speaker 2: And so while she was building her her business, I was still working Speaker 2: a w two job. Speaker 2: And then once she had enough money to to support, you know, that Speaker 2: part of the income, I just wanna be in real estate. Speaker 2: And so I, Speaker 2: saw all these HGTV people at the time. Speaker 2: That's when the Property Brothers and Fix and Slipper were very hot, very, very Speaker 2: new. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And so I wanna be just like them, and I thought I could do Speaker 2: it. Speaker 2: And lo and behold, there was a a team that came into town that Speaker 2: was promoting, Tarek and Christina El Moussa at the time.

19:09 Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 2: And so I went to that seminar, and then I bought into another seminar, Speaker 2: and it led me to another seminar and, you know, paid a bunch of Speaker 2: money for that stuff. Speaker 2: And and then took, just got my, like, Speaker 2: cut cut my teeth in real estate, I guess Mhmm. Speaker 2: From there. Speaker 2: And then I I figured out how to do it. Speaker 2: I, I quit quit my job and just wanted to focus on that full Speaker 2: time and then just kinda just my back was against the wall, and I Speaker 2: just had to figure it out. Speaker 2: So I I hadn't gotten divorced or had those issues with my wife just Speaker 2: yet at that point, but Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: That's kind of how I Speaker 0: started in real estate. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: So and was was, as far as your decision because our listener, Speaker 0: you know, may may have a w two, may have a a side hustle, Speaker 0: may be thinking about quitting or, you know, at that time, was did you Speaker 0: get your your wife on board with you, quitting your w two?

19:57 Speaker 0: What was that transition like, from w two to entrepreneur entrepreneur? Speaker 2: It it was pretty easy transition. Speaker 2: The company that I worked for was very understanding and and Speaker 2: very supportive, for me to try to go out on my own. Speaker 2: They they knew I was very driven. Speaker 2: I I was good at what I do. Speaker 2: I I didn't leave them high and dry by any means. Speaker 2: I stayed on for a couple of months to kinda transition out. Speaker 2: So I cut back my hours, you know, each month. Speaker 2: And each month, I would add hours to my real estate business as I Speaker 2: was learning and reading more and and getting more training and spending more money Speaker 2: and figuring this stuff out on my own. Speaker 2: So that transition was kinda nice. Speaker 0: I'm Speaker 2: not saying it was easy. Speaker 2: It was just nice because everybody understood from all facets from my Speaker 2: wife to the company that I worked for.

20:41 Speaker 2: So that that was a nice positive reinforcement there. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Sounds a little bit like like mine. Speaker 0: I took my time, and I went part time for seven years and, Speaker 0: was building my real estate, you know, business on the side and then Speaker 0: eventually quit, in March of last year. Speaker 0: But, Speaker 0: so okay. Speaker 0: So then the divorce and and and, you know, I say this a lot Speaker 0: on the show, but it's it's a kind of the, necessary Speaker 0: evil as far as the risk we run with with the show or I Speaker 0: run as far as just glossing over people's pain and adversity. Speaker 0: And, you know, I know you mentioned that was a year and a half Speaker 0: to two years of kind of dealing with that, and that that's not Speaker 0: none of that was easy.

21:24 Speaker 0: And I know I know there was a lot that, you know, we're glossing Speaker 0: over, but, Speaker 0: talk to us about kind of from that, I guess, after that two year Speaker 0: period was up or, you know, what what happened, after the kind Speaker 0: of that transition took place. Speaker 2: Well, just everything kinda started falling apart. Speaker 2: So I, Speaker 2: took on a not a business partner, but kind of a a project Speaker 2: construction manager partner, if you will, a non equity partner. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 2: So I would be the expert at financing and finding Speaker 2: the deals and just just underwriting the project in general with with a direction Speaker 2: of where we wanted to go with with fix and flipping and and wholesaling. Speaker 2: Okay.

22:05 Speaker 2: And the the construction manager was someone that I trusted and was my friend, Speaker 2: and they were supposed to manage the project, get the people in, and get Speaker 2: the work done. Speaker 2: So we we worked pretty well together for the most part, but, they just Speaker 2: didn't have the same drive and tenacity that that I did. Speaker 2: So there was a lot of things that were just going a little bit Speaker 2: slower paced and a lot of you know, a few mistakes that were happening, Speaker 2: and it was just constantly, like, revolving door of contractors coming in Speaker 2: and out as far as, like, they didn't do it right. Speaker 2: We have to redo their work and pay for pay for more stuff. Speaker 0: So What year was this? Speaker 2: This was around two thousand fifteen, two thousand sixteen. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: So When you could still find deals. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah.

22:45 Speaker 2: Exactly. Speaker 2: So so we could find deals and start working on them. Speaker 2: So I I you know, we do a couple projects at a time. Speaker 2: It isn't too many because this these were my first couple of deals. Speaker 2: And Sure. Speaker 2: So that that was, like, right when the bad stuff started happening with, finding Speaker 2: out about the adultery and, the drinking I knew about for a year or Speaker 2: two, and that wasn't the worst part about it. Speaker 2: It was, the adultery. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 0: I can't imagine. Speaker 0: I mean, it's just yeah. Speaker 0: That would just Speaker 2: yeah. Speaker 2: It's Yeah. Speaker 2: It's like someone else living a second life and right in front of you, Speaker 2: and you don't even know what's happening. Speaker 2: It's just like, I I don't at first, you don't believe it. Speaker 2: You're just like, how is that possible? Speaker 2: Like, I I'm around you all the time. Speaker 2: Like, how how physically do you have time to do to do any of Speaker 2: this stuff?

23:27 Speaker 2: You know? Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And and then just I imagine it just yeah. Speaker 0: It rocks you to your core. Speaker 0: I mean, it's just, Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 0: So what goes through your mind as far as, you know, Speaker 0: you know, what's what's going through your mind at that time? Speaker 0: As as you're progressing through that that hard couple of years, what's what's Speaker 0: happening internally and and with your mindset? Speaker 2: You know, it's kinda like I would describe it as, you know, like, Speaker 2: the steps to alcoholism, like, being an alcoholic and Speaker 2: going through Alcoholics Anonymous. Speaker 2: I would I would take it to that extent as far as, like, at Speaker 2: first, you're just you're just unaware that that this is happening. Speaker 0: Mhmm.

24:07 Speaker 0: And Speaker 2: then you finally have to come to realization that it happened, and there's not Speaker 2: anything to do about it. Speaker 2: But you need to accept it, and then you need to start figuring out Speaker 2: how to go forward. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: But the main thing I was concerned with was kids. Speaker 2: I'm very Yeah. Speaker 2: Close to my kids. Speaker 2: I care deeply about my children, and I wanna be the best father that Speaker 2: I can to them. Speaker 2: And I I am more concerned at this point. Speaker 2: I'm I'm siloing my feelings and putting to the side, which isn't a good Speaker 2: thing. Speaker 2: But I did that because I wanted my kids to be reassured that, you Speaker 2: know, daddy's okay, mommy's okay. Speaker 2: It's just we're gonna be living in two different houses, you know, that they're Speaker 2: very young. Speaker 2: They they didn't react in a negative way. Speaker 2: They just looked at it as, oh, this is cool. Speaker 2: I'm getting two Christmases now. Speaker 2: I'm getting two birthdays now.

24:48 Speaker 2: They're like, Speaker 0: oh, yeah. Speaker 2: You know, they're they're spinning the fun out of it, you know, spinning it Speaker 2: to the positive. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: But so that that was kind of my first priority is how do I Speaker 2: take care of them? Speaker 2: Second priority, how do I make sure I get money coming in the door? Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: My third priority is how how do I how do I accept what happened, Speaker 2: and how how do I move forward from this, and how do I learn Speaker 2: from these these challenges? Speaker 2: So it was it wasn't easy at all. Speaker 2: You know? Speaker 2: You have Speaker 0: to go through Speaker 2: counseling and and figure out what to do. Speaker 2: And then, you know, on top of that, mistakes are happening with being a Speaker 2: first time entrepreneur and and trying to figure out this real estate game on Speaker 2: how to do things and how to trust people and how to how to Speaker 2: vet deals and vet people and and just knowing how to run a business. Speaker 2: It was, Jamie, I made all the mistakes in the world, Speaker 2: and I lost a crap ton of money too.

25:36 Speaker 2: I lost sixty thousand dollars on one flip. Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 0: That is a lot. Speaker 0: I mean, it's a lot when you I mean, I think for anyone. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: But especially when you're going through a divorce Speaker 0: and I mean, Speaker 2: My my mind probably wasn't right. Speaker 2: At the time, I thought I was sharp, and I knew what I was Speaker 2: doing. Speaker 2: But before I knew it, people were making mistakes. Speaker 2: We were to market too early. Speaker 2: I was you know, I I I don't know I don't know what happened. Speaker 2: I I can look back now and point fingers, but at the end of Speaker 2: the day, the the person that is the problem is the person that's talking Speaker 2: on the microphone right now. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I appreciate you being vulnerable and honest, and that's, you know, it's that that's Speaker 0: what I'm trying to get at with this show is it's it's all it's Speaker 0: easy to think that it's all rainbows and unicorns, and Justin Bogart's Speaker 0: this entrepreneur who's just got it made and was handed everything.

26:22 Speaker 0: And No. Speaker 0: It's not like that. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: I appreciate you sharing. Speaker 0: But so what if you looking back on and I know we haven't finished Speaker 0: the rest of the story yet, but just kind of Speaker 2: Up to Speaker 0: that point. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: There's more. Speaker 2: There's more. Speaker 2: But up to that point Speaker 0: with both the the family hardships and Speaker 0: the business and, Speaker 0: technically, not partnership, but, you know, business hardships or, you know, relationships Speaker 0: there. Speaker 0: What have you learned at this point? Speaker 0: You know, looking back, what did you learned up up at that, till that Speaker 0: point? Speaker 0: Any lessons you could pull out? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: There's there's a lot of lessons. Speaker 2: You know, at at first, as far as a relationship goes, Speaker 2: I need to be more open with my feelings.

27:07 Speaker 2: I didn't need to wear my heart on my sleeve a little bit more. Speaker 2: So at least the other person knows where I'm at, and the person knows Speaker 2: my values and how I feel and what what I think. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 2: And then also I need to I need to make sure that they reciprocate Speaker 2: that as well and make sure the communication is a two way street and Speaker 2: and not very closed off. Speaker 2: And I think that was a a big major problem with my first first Speaker 2: marriage Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: Was that the communication just wasn't open. Speaker 2: It was always assumed that the other party was happy because I didn't know Speaker 2: otherwise, but we didn't also talk about it either. Speaker 2: So Mhmm. Speaker 2: There's there isn't blame, a hundred percent blame on her side. Speaker 2: You know, there's there's blame on my side as well. Speaker 2: And so that's what I learned from my first marriage is is the communication Speaker 2: really is the open door.

27:51 Speaker 2: And and like what you said, Jamie, no matter what you see on people's Speaker 2: Facebook posts, all this happy, you know, rainbows and sunshine stuff, Speaker 2: it isn't reality at all. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: It's a facade of what's really going on. Speaker 2: Not saying every every happy person on Facebook is actually depressed and sad and Speaker 2: everything's horrible on their side. Speaker 0: It's just Right. Speaker 2: It's they're not showing you the full gambit of the picture of the story. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: They're you're just seeing the highlight reel. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And and and the truth is and I you know, I've talked about this Speaker 0: with my wife. Speaker 0: It's like, you know, people only put their their vacation pictures. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: But I kinda like seeing their vacation pictures. Speaker 0: Like Well, I did that too. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: You know? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: I don't wanna necessarily always dive into people's problems all day.

28:33 Speaker 0: I'm going on social media to, you know, to have a nice positive break. Speaker 0: So we're not saying it's necessarily a bad thing that people are doing that, Speaker 0: but just understand that that what what they're posting is it it Speaker 0: can get if you take that as twenty four seven, this is what their Speaker 0: life is always like. Speaker 0: That's just not not the truth. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: It's yep. Speaker 2: Go ahead. Speaker 2: Everybody has their own struggles. Speaker 2: Everybody has their own life problems, and and it all sucks. Speaker 2: But there's also a positive to it. Speaker 2: There's also highs, and there's also lows. Speaker 2: And we all go through it. Speaker 2: And I expect that to happen in the future. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And by all means, I feel like I've had, you know, in my experience Speaker 2: and walking a mile in my shoes, I I've had some hard times, but Speaker 2: but they're not probably anything like somebody else's hard times to where maybe Speaker 2: they they've lost a loved one or something very, very traumatic has happened to Speaker 2: them.

29:19 Speaker 2: I don't wanna compare myself to a situation like that. Speaker 2: But I have gone through hard times, and and, Speaker 2: I know that it's made me stronger. Speaker 2: And I've and I had to learn from those hard times in order to Speaker 2: get back, you know, to the to the positive direction. Speaker 2: So Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So and on the small business side or the real estate investing side, what Speaker 0: was, anything, was communication also the lesson there? Speaker 0: What was the the lesson you could take from from that? Speaker 2: It's it's really it's the real estate knowing Speaker 2: how to flip a house or knowing how to wholesale, it's not that complicated. Speaker 2: Knowing how to buy a note or invest a note, it's not that complicated. Speaker 2: It isn't rocket science.

30:01 Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: But that's one small part of it. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So when you're on your own, you either do this as a part time Speaker 2: thing or you do this as a full time thing. Speaker 2: I chose to do it as a full time thing. Speaker 2: I had I had only my own money to back me, and I didn't Speaker 2: ask for any help or any money from my family. Speaker 2: And I don't know if they would have gave it to me, but I Speaker 2: didn't ask for it because I didn't want that. Speaker 2: That's not the type of person I am. Speaker 2: I don't I don't want a handout. Speaker 2: I wanna learn the hard way because I'm hard headed. Speaker 2: And so so I I did that on my own. Speaker 2: So when I lost all that money, I was negative. Speaker 2: My my my worth was in in the hundred hundreds Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars negative.

30:41 Speaker 2: Wow. Speaker 2: So it was devastating. Speaker 0: So and at the just to, with the Speaker 0: family side of things, when you were one to two hundred thousand dollars negative, Speaker 0: whatever it was exactly, but when you were had no money, what Speaker 0: was going on on the was that as you're going through the divorce, or Speaker 0: what was the timing of everything? Speaker 0: How did that line up with the the family side of things? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So when I found out about, the the adultery stuff, Speaker 2: I I knew the relationship was over and that, at least, that was a Speaker 2: known fact going forward. Speaker 0: And Speaker 2: that that just going through the divorce, separating the assets, and all Speaker 2: that stuff was actually easy to do Mhmm. Speaker 2: Because there was no disagreement from either side on stuff.

31:22 Speaker 2: We didn't make it. Speaker 2: Well, I should say I didn't make it, difficult for the other other person, Speaker 2: for my ex. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: I I just said, what's the point? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: What's the point? Speaker 2: I I could I could dislike them. Speaker 2: I could say I loathe them. Speaker 2: I could say I hate them. Speaker 2: I I could try to spite them. Speaker 2: I could try to put things back in their face and be, you know, Speaker 2: passive aggressive. Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, who cares? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: You Speaker 2: know, who really cares? Speaker 2: What good is that gonna do me by being vindictive? Speaker 2: And so that's just not the person that I am. Speaker 2: So I I just move on. Speaker 2: I just be the best co parent that I can with them. Speaker 2: You know? Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: To this day, we we still communicate pretty well, and there's no, like, friction Speaker 2: or problem between us.

32:04 Speaker 2: We just I just kinda said what I said, you know, while we were Speaker 2: getting divorced, and it just says what it is. Speaker 2: There's nothing I can do about it to change the past. Speaker 0: So then the the business hardships, how did timing wise, how did Speaker 0: that coincide with the Speaker 2: divorce? Speaker 2: It kinda it was the perfect storm. Speaker 2: It it all happened kind of at the same time. Speaker 2: And there's a saying that you hear when it rains, it pours, and and Speaker 2: I relate to that in a lot of times in my life. Speaker 2: I know when something bad happens and a couple other things bad happen, like, Speaker 2: the rest of it's gonna come down, so just expect it to come down. Speaker 2: It doesn't seem that bad. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: You know what's gonna happen? Speaker 2: You know someone's gonna rip off the Band Aid, at least you know and Speaker 2: supposed to being surprised about it. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Take a Speaker 0: look at that. Speaker 0: The, I don't know if you've had a chance to listen to our mutual Speaker 0: friend, Chris Seventy's, episode on my show.

32:50 Speaker 0: It was episode three. Speaker 0: So we're going back about a year. Speaker 0: But Yeah. Speaker 0: He went through there was a two or three month period where it was Speaker 0: a divorce and about two hundred fifty thousand dollars in debt, if I recall Speaker 0: correctly. Speaker 0: And then he also had a major health scare. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And so, again, you get into this comparison game, and that's not the point. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: It's just, in a lot of ways, you know, he went through a similar Speaker 0: similar type story where Speaker 0: just like you said, when it rains, it pours, and, he ended up moving Speaker 0: geographically and kind of restarting. Speaker 0: So how did you Yeah. Speaker 0: How did you refocus? Speaker 0: How did you rebuild at that point? Speaker 2: What's kinda the same way you describe Chris's story?

33:33 Speaker 2: I that's that's kinda how I think. Speaker 2: I just like a computer, I just wanna reboot. Speaker 2: You wanna push a button to set reset. Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 2: Wipe the memory clean. Speaker 2: You know, nothing happened in the past. Speaker 2: I'm I'm like a goldfish. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: Got ten second memory. Speaker 2: Ted Lasso. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: Ten second memories. Speaker 2: And just reset and move forward. Speaker 2: You you can you need you can express your emotions and express your feelings Speaker 2: is what I've learned, and it's okay to do that, and you should do Speaker 2: that. Speaker 2: But at the same time, you just need to acknowledge your feelings and you Speaker 2: need to move forward. Speaker 2: And so I lost a bunch of money, you know, whoop dee doo, Speaker 2: poor Justin. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: But how do you get it back? Speaker 2: How do you move forward? Speaker 2: How do you not make that mistake again? Speaker 2: Are you gonna just give up because you lost a bunch of money?

34:15 Speaker 2: Has anyone else done that? Speaker 2: Well, yeah. Speaker 2: Lots of people have lost money before. Speaker 2: Lots of people Sure. Speaker 2: Made mistakes. Speaker 2: And, Speaker 2: I I just I know that I don't wanna go back to a w Speaker 2: two job. Speaker 2: I just consider that jail for me. Speaker 2: I don't wanna go Speaker 0: to jail. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I don't wanna do it. Speaker 2: There's been many times, and and I've lost money again on deals, not not Speaker 2: too far from the timeline where we're at right now and where I lost Speaker 2: it all again. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: I get it back and I lost it all again. Speaker 2: You just I I I refuse to give up this Speaker 2: life of being an entrepreneur and being a business owner, and I I won't Speaker 2: I won't back down no matter how many times I get knocked down. Speaker 0: I love it.

34:56 Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: So just looking back on the times you've lost money as in specific deals, Speaker 0: and I I think you would agree it's it's almost unavoidable if you do Speaker 0: enough deals. Speaker 0: And, you know, you can't you can't approach business or or investing Speaker 0: with the, from the standpoint of there's no risk or anything like that. Speaker 0: There's always risk. Speaker 0: But what would you do differently from maybe an individual deal standpoint? Speaker 0: Or, how have you adjusted your business model, Speaker 0: you know, going forward to avoid a a big loss like that? Speaker 2: Well, I feel really comfortable now when I look at a deal Speaker 2: and I underwrite it because I know the expenses in my head now that Speaker 2: I've experienced going through a deal forwards and backwards and doing it many Speaker 2: times.

35:43 Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So I understand what it costs to go into it. Speaker 2: I understand what can go wrong, and I know what's gonna happen. Speaker 2: I hate not knowing what you don't know. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And so because now I know what's gonna happen, Speaker 2: anything minor that pops up really isn't a big deal. Speaker 2: I know it's not a major thing. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: Going forward, I I definitely have a lot of experience. Speaker 2: And then I also have people that I can lean on very heavily. Speaker 2: You know, I have have you. Speaker 2: I have Chris. Speaker 2: I have, you know, Richard. Speaker 2: I have, you know, my mentors that got me into the note business. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I have all those people I can lean on when I have those challenges. Speaker 2: So so I I would, and until this point, I don't have to lean Speaker 2: on people too often anymore unless I come across a really unique situation that Speaker 2: I just don't know.

36:24 Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: But I have that luxury today of passing on that knowledge now to the Speaker 2: next person. Speaker 2: And so that's Speaker 0: I love it. Speaker 2: A lot of what we do today is is more, not training Speaker 2: per se, but more just educational. Speaker 2: Just say, hey. Speaker 2: Learn from our experiences. Speaker 2: And Sure. Speaker 2: We can tell you when you're doing this type of deal, I know I Speaker 2: I pretty much know what's gonna happen with this deal. Speaker 2: You know? Speaker 2: I can always say this borrower's thinking. Speaker 2: I I know I know they're lying. Speaker 2: I know I know I know what's going on. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Deal. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's, that's good. Speaker 0: It's yeah. Speaker 0: And you get sometimes these because there's so many coaches and trainers out there Speaker 0: now. Speaker 0: Sometimes, those of us who do this in any capacity, because I do Speaker 0: mentorship, you know, on a one on one basis as well.

37:06 Speaker 0: And, it's some some of us get a bad rap because, Speaker 0: you know, these because there are some shady coaches Speaker 2: out there. Speaker 2: Bad actors out there. Speaker 2: That's for sure. Speaker 0: For sure. Speaker 0: And, you know, people who just should not be advising others, for sure. Speaker 0: But but you reach a point where it's like, well, why would you not Speaker 0: if you have all this experience, why would you not give back? Speaker 0: But and and it there's value in that for other people. Speaker 0: So they should be paying you for that if, you know, that's that's Speaker 0: that's a that's a a good thing. Speaker 0: But question on the, you know, so you mentioned your your business partner, Richard. Speaker 0: How did you get comfortable enough to partnering with Richard, and what do you Speaker 0: look for when you're working with people, professionally at Speaker 0: this point?

37:48 Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 2: So so, again, it's it's like losing money on a deal and Speaker 2: then trying to to pick up the pieces and move forward. Speaker 2: It's the same thing with a business partner or someone that that you want Speaker 2: to work with on a on a team. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: You're gonna go through people. Speaker 2: You're gonna go through employees. Speaker 2: It's just until you find the right assistant, you know, virtual assistant Speaker 2: or or helper Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: You're not gonna find the right one until until you do. Speaker 2: And so you may Sure. Speaker 2: You may go through several and just like vendors, you're gonna go through several Speaker 2: vendors or contractors until you find the right one that works for you. Speaker 2: So it's it's sniffing out what what is it that I'm looking for, Speaker 2: and then how does that person, replicate that, or Speaker 2: how do they complement what I do well?

38:29 Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: I know what I do well. Speaker 2: I know what Richard Thornton does well. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And so together, we we have a business marriage, Speaker 2: very well because there are things that he does that I just don't wanna Speaker 2: do and I don't do well to begin with. Speaker 2: There's things that I do really well that he he just, you know, throws Speaker 2: up his hands and says, I I that's not me. Speaker 2: I don't wanna do it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And I've and like I said, we've I've gotten to know you guys a Speaker 0: little bit better, and it seems like you worked very well together. Speaker 0: So before I jump, I do have some more rapid fire questions. Speaker 0: But before I get to those, what's talk about your business Speaker 0: today. Speaker 0: What does that look like? Speaker 0: You you have a fund. Speaker 0: What does that mean?

39:10 Speaker 0: What what what's your business look like today? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So today, we're doing the same thing that that we're Speaker 2: doing the past, six or seven years, which is just buying seller Speaker 2: finance paper. Speaker 2: We we find the people that create seller financing or do Speaker 2: owner financing on their properties, and then we buy that paper from them. Speaker 2: And so with the fund, now we have a bigger bank Speaker 2: that we can work from instead of using our own capital because Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: Rich and I decided, hey. Speaker 2: Let's use our own money. Speaker 2: And then we realized after after, you know, ten, fourteen deals, we Speaker 2: don't have any more money. Speaker 2: So we get more money there, but we should be doing a fund. Speaker 2: We didn't know we were gonna have this much opportunity to buy stuff.

39:51 Speaker 2: We didn't know we were gonna do this well this quickly. Speaker 2: And so we just said, stop. Speaker 2: We we need a solution quickly, and we said, let's start a fund. Speaker 2: So we said we're gonna do a ten million dollar fund. Speaker 2: We're gonna do a family and friends fund. Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 2: That's what we call it, five zero six b, fully regulated and, you know, Speaker 2: had an attorney draft all the paperwork. Speaker 2: And so, we have investors now that are investing in our fund where it's Speaker 2: gonna be a ten year fund, and we only have, we're Speaker 2: planning on after the first couple years to do the next iteration of that Speaker 2: fund to make it larger and more robust. Speaker 0: And Speaker 2: so that's kind of our game plan. Speaker 2: Our stepping stone is to get to three funds. Speaker 2: And so the the first one is already in place in motion and already Speaker 2: active, and the second one, about two years from now, will probably introduce the Speaker 2: second.

40:33 Speaker 0: Nice. Speaker 0: Well, I mean, a couple things I'll add on. Speaker 0: One is you have the real estate background from, you know, fix Speaker 0: and flipping and wholesaling and, construction. Speaker 0: And, I mean, that only helps, when because we do see Speaker 0: you know, as you know, people can you can be successful as a note Speaker 0: investor coming from the engineering side of things or coming from finance Speaker 0: or the mortgage side of things or coming from the real estate or real Speaker 0: estate investing niche. Speaker 0: It's kind of a there's not a one size fits all, Speaker 0: avatar of who's gonna be successful in as a mortgage note investor. Speaker 0: But, personally, I think if if I had to give any I mean, I Speaker 0: think just having that real estate background is huge because Speaker 0: what happens if your borrower goes, nonperform your note goes nonperforming, Speaker 0: they stop paying?

41:21 Speaker 0: Well, Speaker 0: you you can evaluate that property, what to do with it, and you have Speaker 0: that experience. Speaker 0: So I think that only helps. Speaker 0: Secondly, I think it it just makes sense as far as the fund. Speaker 0: I mean, you Speaker 0: this business comes down to three things. Speaker 0: It's raising raising it's it's finding deals, which it sounds like you and Richard Speaker 0: have a pretty good niche as far as, finding, you know, access to Speaker 0: to notes themselves, seller finance paper. Speaker 0: And the other piece is managing those assets, which I know you do a Speaker 0: good job of because, we use have used the same, platform, Speaker 0: and we've you and I have talked about that. Speaker 0: And and then thirdly, like you said, it doesn't matter if you and Richard Speaker 0: have ten million dollars between the two of you.

42:04 Speaker 0: You're gonna run out of your own capital if if you're scaling. Speaker 0: I mean, you know, it doesn't really matter. Speaker 0: So you've gotta find access to capital. Speaker 0: So it sounds like you've found a way to solve all three of those Speaker 0: problems. Speaker 0: I know it's always a work in progress. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: I wouldn't say solve the problem, but I'd say definitely in work on. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Well, we're definitely trending in the right direction that, you know, know, OPM, other Speaker 2: people's money is a key to anybody's anybody's real estate business. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That makes sense. Speaker 0: So and then you have an educational side, and I know you have Speaker 0: we'll we'll talk in a little bit about how people can can reach out Speaker 0: to you. Speaker 0: But I've got a few, rapid fire questions here for you.

42:44 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: What's one thing that people misunderstand about you? Speaker 2: Wow. Speaker 2: That's a good one. Speaker 2: I Speaker 2: I think I think it's my discipline and my tenacity. Speaker 2: They they don't. Speaker 2: They don't. Speaker 2: I think that's part of it. Speaker 2: The other the other thing I think people Speaker 2: and and I don't know this. Speaker 2: This is just my assumption, just my my view on how other people Speaker 2: might view me or or not take advantage of of of what I I Speaker 2: know and my experience Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: Is that I don't feel like a lot of people listen to my advice. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And I I wish that they would at least consider it or at least Speaker 2: seriously think about the fact that I've been through that before or I I Speaker 2: I can sense what's going on with this or, you know, you should do Speaker 2: things this way.

43:33 Speaker 2: And it kinda bothers me a little bit, but I'm just you know, I Speaker 2: understand from their point of view, you know, who am I? Speaker 2: They don't know me yet. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: They don't know my story or my background. Speaker 2: Maybe after this episode, they will. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 0: There you can. Speaker 0: We're we're gonna fix that problem right here, right now. Speaker 2: But I say, yeah, that that's that's the biggest thing I noticed. Speaker 2: I don't think people follow my my advice very well. Speaker 2: I I feel like I give really good advice, Jamie, and I don't charge Speaker 2: for it. Speaker 0: Maybe that's the problem you're gonna charge for it. Speaker 0: Problem. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's good. Speaker 0: I mean, it's it's I I can, you know, I can relate on some Speaker 0: level. Speaker 0: But, Speaker 0: you know, a lot of times, it's just timing and and how how the Speaker 0: message is structured and but it's you know, you can't you can't force Speaker 0: it.

44:14 Speaker 0: What's one of your biggest, you know, regrets or failures that that Speaker 0: we haven't talked about? Speaker 0: Anything that you can point to that you'd like a do over with? Speaker 2: Man, there's a lot of things I'd like a do over with. Speaker 0: But at Speaker 2: the same time, I'll talk about the other side of my mouth and say Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here and know what I know today if I didn't go Speaker 2: through what I went through. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: Going through the divorce, losing losing a lot of money, not Speaker 2: knowing if I'm gonna be able to afford to to buy my kids food. Speaker 2: It's just there was times in my life to where it's just like, my Speaker 2: god. Speaker 2: Like, is it really this bleak? Speaker 2: And then I would read about, you know, other entrepreneurs and other CEOs. Speaker 2: It's like they all go through it. Speaker 2: They all lost money.

44:54 Speaker 2: They've all gone through terrible stuff, very stressful things. Speaker 2: Like, if you can't stomach this stuff, don't be an entrepreneur. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 2: I didn't know the stuff either. Speaker 2: I I I wish I would have had better mentorship or known who Speaker 2: to trust early on. Speaker 2: I think I woulda had a lot less struggles. Speaker 2: I still woulda struggled. Speaker 2: Don't don't get me wrong. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: This wouldn't have been there is no perfect road. Speaker 2: There is no perfect way to hold somebody's hand. Speaker 2: It's just, it's too difficult to teach being a business Speaker 2: owner in a class. Speaker 2: You just have to get your hands dirty and just just hope and pray. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: There's some principles you can, you know, fall back on, but your business Speaker 0: looks different than my business. Speaker 0: So we're gonna have different different struggles and you know?

45:36 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So speaking of that, though, if you could go back and give your eighteen Speaker 0: year old self some advice, what would it be? Speaker 2: I would say understand money. Speaker 2: Understand financing very quickly. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I love that. Speaker 0: It's It's really good. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's a tough one too because it's, you know, we say we should educate, Speaker 0: and I fully agree it's critical, right, to to educate the younger Speaker 0: generation on personal finance and investing. Speaker 0: Getting their buy in is the hard part sometimes, but, Speaker 0: I'll just leave that there. Speaker 0: If you could go back and have have a coffee or or a Speaker 0: drink or, you know, spend have a conversation with any historical figure, who would Speaker 0: who would you choose?

46:19 Speaker 2: Any historical figure? Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Speaker 0: They could still be alive today. Speaker 0: Is there anybody you'd like to, you know, pick their brain for for half Speaker 0: an hour? Speaker 2: Man, I I mean, not nothing jumps out on paper, but I would I Speaker 2: would probably Speaker 2: pick somebody that that has just, been through just a lot of life Speaker 2: challenges and just understand where their mind was, where they were going through, Speaker 2: you know, how they move forward. Speaker 2: I I I don't like like I said, I can't picture who that would Speaker 2: be off top of my head, but it would be someone, And it may Speaker 2: not be somebody famous. Speaker 2: May not it just may be somebody close to me that I know that Speaker 2: I would look up to and be like, I wanna be like that person. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it?

47:02 Speaker 2: Invest in a fund. Speaker 2: I I would I would definitely not spend it. Speaker 2: I would, Speaker 2: probably pay off some debt that's been bothering me, And then I would probably Speaker 2: make sure that I set up very, strong portfolio Speaker 2: that would just keep constant cash flow coming in. Speaker 0: Nice. Speaker 2: And build off that. Speaker 2: I I always try to live beneath my means or just just right at Speaker 2: my means and not not overspend. Speaker 2: So I don't I don't have fan fancy stuff. Speaker 2: So I just want to set up for the future. Speaker 2: I'm used to not having fancy things, so I don't wanna start having it Speaker 2: and be spoiled. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: How about a a a book that you could recommend, a book or two Speaker 0: that's, either in in, you know, about life or entrepreneurship or investing, any Speaker 0: of those topics?

47:50 Speaker 0: Anything come to mind? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: There's there's a few books that I've read. Speaker 2: The titles are escaping me. Speaker 2: And, obviously, Rich Dad Poor Dad is is probably the number one book that Speaker 2: you just have to read when you get into real estate. Speaker 2: Just it does a great job of setting the table of understanding why Speaker 2: why nine out of ten million years are in real estate, to understanding financials, Speaker 2: understanding about hard assets, and understanding leveraging. Speaker 2: Like, all all those techniques are great precursor to to what you can be. Speaker 2: But I also read a lot of just, sometimes I read just odd Speaker 2: books that have nothing to do with life, nothing to do with, Speaker 2: bettering yourself as far as being a business person. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: So I sometimes I read some occult or esoteric type of books just for Speaker 2: for the story of it or just understanding that this might have happened in Speaker 2: our past.

48:38 Speaker 2: And that kind of, I guess, Speaker 2: I'll say excites, but I guess it it it it answers a lot of Speaker 2: questions for me about, you know, how how do we get fast forward to Speaker 2: two thousand twenty three from, you know, year zero when Price Speaker 2: was born? Speaker 2: Like, what how how do we get to here? Speaker 2: You know? Speaker 2: And how are things moving slow, then all of a sudden there was a Speaker 2: explosion of, you know, industrialism and stuff. Speaker 2: So it's just that stuff fascinates me just to understand. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Well, yeah, it sounds like you have that analytical mind and you like to Speaker 0: deconstruct things and just Speaker 2: kind of Yeah. Speaker 0: Understand things from that standpoint. Speaker 0: So what's one thing in your business that you a problem that you're dealing Speaker 0: with right now on the business side?

49:25 Speaker 2: The biggest problem that we have, I think, is very Speaker 2: similar to any any business today, and that's knowing Speaker 2: how to market. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So knowing how to market, meaning we we have to like you said, Speaker 2: we have to raise capital. Speaker 2: So we're looking for individuals with private money. Speaker 2: Number two, we we have to find inventory. Speaker 2: So that that's two of our legs of our three leg stands here. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And so marketing to those two different verticals is always a challenge Speaker 2: because it's it's an ever moving target. Speaker 2: And it isn't the old ways before a lot of social media and Speaker 2: technology where you just send out mail or put things in the newspaper because Speaker 2: everyone is reading those things. Speaker 2: Well, now everyone's reading a multitude of different type of sources.

50:09 Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And it's how do you spend your money and where you spend your money. Speaker 2: So it's very difficult to figure out, like you said in the beginning, your Speaker 2: avatar of who who your customer is or who your client is Speaker 2: and understanding, you know, Speaker 2: understanding them and how to reach them in a way that makes sense so Speaker 2: that they are, you know, enticed or at least this is what they wanna Speaker 2: do, and I just happen to be in front of them when they wanna Speaker 2: make a decision. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I can totally understand. Speaker 0: It's it's it's, the the passive investor is very different than the active node Speaker 0: investor, real estate investor, and, you know, and how do you how do you, Speaker 0: focus your marketing and and business development efforts to Speaker 0: kind of Yeah. Speaker 0: Provide the most value to the to the right the person you're trying to Speaker 0: reach.

50:52 Speaker 2: There's sales, there's marketing, and they're not the same thing. Speaker 2: They're they're not the same thing. Speaker 0: Yep. Speaker 0: This is true. Speaker 0: I've I've just started trying to implement some KPIs. Speaker 0: We just we're just starting this in my business, you know, because we we Speaker 0: do all this marketing, and it's like, what for? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Posting on social media. Speaker 0: That's cool. Speaker 0: Like, you know, it doesn't really mean anything if unless it's really coming Speaker 0: back to the business. Speaker 0: But Yeah. Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: what's one question that that I haven't asked you that you wish I had? Speaker 0: Anything you wanna talk about that we haven't touched on? Speaker 0: Talk about your your podcast and and, you know, where people Speaker 0: can can find you.

51:36 Speaker 2: So we have a podcast called Be the Bank. Speaker 2: We are on season five, and we're we're through probably, I don't know, six Speaker 2: or seven episodes already on season five. Speaker 2: We release it every other Wednesday, so we do about twenty six episodes a Speaker 2: year. Speaker 2: So every year is a season. Speaker 2: That's how I I'm keeping track, so it's easy to keep track. Speaker 2: I've been doing this for five years. Speaker 2: I started off with my good friend here locally in the Indianapolis area. Speaker 2: Her name is Elizabeth Maiora, or she likes to be called Super e. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So we had the Super e and j podcast, and that was kind of Speaker 2: the pilot season, the first season. Speaker 2: And then we we changed the iteration to the two wealth shows. Speaker 2: We're just talking about wealth and Speaker 0: and real estate. Speaker 0: She's into short term rentals. Speaker 0: Is that right? Speaker 2: She is. Speaker 2: She's our short term rental expert in our Yep.

52:19 Speaker 2: In our region, really. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 0: There's a Speaker 2: lot of people that do it, so she kinda flourished pretty quickly. Speaker 2: And she does she's really smart really well. Speaker 2: She worked in the car industry, up in up in Michigan for for a Speaker 2: while in corporate. Speaker 2: And so then she decided that she just really doesn't have a lot of Speaker 2: time for it. Speaker 2: Things are going well for her. Speaker 2: She's running other businesses and buying other businesses. Speaker 2: And Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And so then I just took the lead and said, you know what? Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. Speaker 2: I got this. Speaker 2: And then we I started the, the Be The Bank, podcast. Speaker 2: So now we've Speaker 0: I've Speaker 2: done two seasons of this new iteration of it. Speaker 2: And so we focus on just talking about it's almost like, Speaker 2: back to sports now. Speaker 2: The ESPN analyst the next day talking about the game last night.

53:01 Speaker 2: You know, it's just Richard. Speaker 2: You usually, Richard and I are meeting a guest bringing up maybe a specific Speaker 2: topic or just analyzing something and just having debate and discussion about it Speaker 2: and just being open about it. Speaker 2: It's very quick. Speaker 2: It's twenty to thirty minutes, so it's a car ride. Speaker 2: That's what that podcast does. Speaker 2: So it's called Be The Bank. Speaker 2: You can subscribe to on any podcast directory. Speaker 2: And then we do a live monthly, educational broadcast Speaker 2: that we do on our YouTube channel and our Facebook page, and that's American Speaker 2: Notebriars YouTube channel. Speaker 2: And that is basically informational, more visual, just Speaker 2: showing about me. Speaker 2: Stats filming on the industry will usually show a case study or give an Speaker 2: example of things that we've done. Speaker 2: So it helps people kinda understand real estate.

53:43 Speaker 2: So They can choose to do it on their own, but most likely, they Speaker 2: end up being more passive than want to invest in, like, your funds. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: Makes a lot of sense. Speaker 0: Where do you see things going on the the seller financed, Speaker 0: seller financing side of things? Speaker 2: It's been trending. Speaker 2: So let let let us start back to the crisis Speaker 2: of two thousand nine. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: The debacle. Speaker 2: The real estate debacle, I'll call it. Speaker 2: The recession. Speaker 2: When it whatever. Speaker 2: The great recession, I think, is what they called it. Speaker 2: They labeled it as as, the states did. Speaker 2: So mortgages immediately got underwater because prices of Speaker 2: home values just dipped very quickly Mhmm.

54:25 Speaker 2: Pretty much overnight. Speaker 2: So banks foreclosed like crazy. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: In around two thousand twelve, two thousand eleven, two thousand thirteen, there was just Speaker 2: a floodgate of foreclosures coming through. Speaker 2: And Mhmm. Speaker 2: You could you could have all the money in the world and spend as Speaker 2: much as you can at the sheriff sale and there still be leftover inventory. Speaker 2: It was just that much inventory that came to fruition. Speaker 2: So a lot of these hedge funds would gobble them up. Speaker 2: They would buy them. Speaker 2: They would resell them on seller financing and do nothing to them. Speaker 2: And borrowers would put down down payments, and they would sell them on land Speaker 2: contract or contract for deeds or sometimes note mortgages. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So that paper kind of baked two thousand fourteen, two thousand fifteen, two thousand Speaker 2: sixteen.

55:05 Speaker 2: They started selling off that paper a little bit at a time. Speaker 2: So we had a lot of paper like that that came through. Speaker 2: At that time, real estate was just, you know, rising in in in appreciation Speaker 2: and appreciation. Speaker 2: Around two thousand eighteen, it kinda scaled, stayed off. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: And then so that's when kind of things got flat, and it was harder Speaker 2: to do notice notice things starting to do harder to flips and stuff until Speaker 2: we got into two thousand twenty. Speaker 2: And then really since the credit crunch was happening in nineteen, twenty, twenty Speaker 2: one, it's been harder for people to get bank financing. Speaker 2: So now Sure. Speaker 2: Seller financing becomes strong. Speaker 2: Appreciation is still rising. Speaker 2: It's still rising. Speaker 2: We're crazy. Speaker 2: So seller financing is gonna continue to get stronger for the next couple of Speaker 2: years.

55:46 Speaker 2: So if you don't know this already, Jamie, it's about thirty to thirty five Speaker 2: thousand seller finance transactions get recorded every year. Speaker 2: Wow. Speaker 2: Residential Mhmm. Speaker 2: Commercial, land, all that stuff. Speaker 2: Both of them come from Texas. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I would I would I agree that it's only gonna continue to trend in Speaker 0: the upward direction as far as opportunity in the seller finance seller Speaker 0: financing space. Speaker 0: You know, it's it's And, of course, we we record this, you know, today. Speaker 0: Who knows what's gonna what it's gonna be like in six months. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: We don't have a crystal ball. Speaker 0: But the fact is, Speaker 0: like you said, residential real estate can even though there are other offices, you Speaker 0: know, commercial is different, multifamily might start to see some real it's Speaker 0: look looking like we're seeing some cracks in that that space.

56:33 Speaker 0: But when you're talking residential real estate in the, Speaker 0: say, seventy five thousand to two hundred fifty thousand dollar range, Speaker 0: it's only the prices are only continuing to climb. Speaker 0: And because why would people transactions are down, but Speaker 0: but, so that collateral value is is only continuing to rise. Speaker 0: And like you said and with the credit crunch, underwriting standards have have only Speaker 0: gone up and up and up. Speaker 0: So it's hard to get an institutional loan. Speaker 0: It's hard to get a loan from a bank. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 2: So Why why would they lend on a property that's a hundred and fifty Speaker 2: thousand west? Speaker 2: It's just it does them no good because it costs them the same to Speaker 2: underwrite that as it does a million dollar home.

57:15 Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: So why why would they want to? Speaker 2: It only benefits us as entrepreneurs and real estate investors for seller Speaker 2: to just seller financing, to help help that market void right there as Speaker 2: as our friend Eddie would say. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: So no. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: It seems like you've got some strong opportunity there in the space that you Speaker 0: find yourself in. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Residential is gonna be good. Speaker 2: I think twenty twenty four in the spring is gonna be a great year Speaker 2: to start investing in real property again. Speaker 2: I think you'll start to seeing more motivated sellers at that point. Speaker 2: And so I think there'll be inventory will start to balance back out again. Speaker 2: I think commercial is gonna be a great opportunity for nonperforming note investors. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: It's only it's only gonna get more bleak, Speaker 2: for, the commercial banks and commercial lending right now Speaker 2: because they're holding paper that's just losing its value every day.

58:04 Speaker 2: And so you can prop you're probably gonna be able to pick up some Speaker 2: pretty good deals pretty soon if you invest in commercial. Speaker 2: It's a lot more capital intensive, but Sure. Speaker 2: But you can pick up some good deals, which is great while we have Speaker 2: the fund as well, and you do too. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: There's always there's always opportunity behind every every problem. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: Even though the headlines will scare you. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's that's, you know, that's the life of an entrepreneur and an investor Speaker 0: is finding that opportunity and then adding value to those Yeah. Speaker 0: Distressed assets and adding value to the your investors and the people you work Speaker 0: with. Speaker 0: So, Speaker 0: what else do you wanna add, Justin, before we wrap up? Speaker 2: Really, I appreciate being on. Speaker 2: I this is the first time I shared a lot of those things on Speaker 2: on OpenAir.

58:48 Speaker 2: So, hopefully, my experiences will give somebody inspiration to Speaker 2: say, you know, there's somebody has gone through something. Speaker 2: Like I said, some of my stuff is not traumatic or tragic by by Speaker 2: any means from somebody else's experiences or what they've gone through. Speaker 2: But I think the moral of my story can relate to a lot of Speaker 2: people is, you know, if you wanna do this, just commit to it Speaker 2: just like a marriage and just be in it for the long haul. Speaker 2: And there's gonna be ups. Speaker 2: There's gonna be a lot of downs. Speaker 2: And all you have to do is learn from the downs and be prepared Speaker 2: for when they happen. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I mean, it's a very practical episode. Speaker 0: Unfortunately, a lot of people can relate to relationship Speaker 0: struggles and and and, you know, adultery Speaker 0: and divorce and things like that.

59:32 Speaker 0: You know, and and I I just love the fact that you were vulnerable Speaker 0: and and that, you know, you recognize even though a lot Speaker 0: of what you went through, you actually couldn't control, you're still not you're still Speaker 0: owning up to you know, there are lessons there for what you could have Speaker 0: done better as far as the communication. Speaker 0: You you talked about that. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And so just for I think for the listener out there, understanding Speaker 0: that life sucks sometimes, Speaker 0: and and that's okay. Speaker 0: And you you can get through it, and better days are ahead. Speaker 0: And, you know, you Justin, you've had struggles on the personal side of Speaker 0: things as well as on the, you know, the the business side of things, Speaker 0: but you're still here.

1:00:14 Speaker 0: And, your lessons from your sports and your swimming, Speaker 0: your discipline and your tenacity that came out of that is only gonna come Speaker 0: back and reward you and reward, you know, Richard and the the investors who Speaker 0: work with you. Speaker 0: So I do thank you for coming on. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: any any, last tidbit you wanna share? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I I would say as you were, Speaker 2: regurgitating this this episode here and and spelling it out in in a fast Speaker 2: sense, I was thinking, one of the best things that I learned from counseling Speaker 2: is that when you get stuck on something or you just shake your head Speaker 2: and you don't understand why, you know, you write down on a piece of Speaker 2: paper, what are the things I can control Speaker 0: and Speaker 2: what are the things I can't control.

1:01:00 Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: And one of the things I can't control is is somebody else. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: I can control my feelings. Speaker 2: I can control how I react to a situation, but I can't control what Speaker 2: somebody else does. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: So a lot of the things that I do in life, I just I Speaker 2: sit back and I just understand, like, I if I'm trying to get Speaker 2: a certain reaction out of somebody or or a certain thing that happened, I Speaker 2: need to make sure that I'm communicating to them how they wanna be communicated. Speaker 2: So, one of my biggest pet peeves is is people not reading emails. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: So Speaker 2: I understand when you when you send a lengthy email, not everybody is Speaker 2: going to read it in its entirety. Speaker 2: So you have to make it very brief, very quick, and very easy to Speaker 2: follow, color coordinate it, bullet point it, and just say, I need these three Speaker 2: questions answered.

1:01:45 Speaker 2: And then, you know, your life's a lot easier. Speaker 2: So I can't control how if somebody reads my emails. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: But what I can control is just getting the point out quickly. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: How you present that email to them. Speaker 0: I you and I have, several of the same pet peeves. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Why won't this person listen to me? Speaker 0: You know? Speaker 0: Why won't they read my email? Speaker 2: I mean, I told you to use a blue pen on on the white Speaker 2: paper. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: I don't know how else to spin it. Speaker 0: But that's that's good. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: It's it's very true, though. Speaker 0: In in all seriousness, you can't control what other people, anything they do, Speaker 0: really. Speaker 2: So why get upset about it, Jamie? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Why get why get upset about it? Speaker 0: Yep. Speaker 0: I love it. Speaker 0: Well, Justin Bogard, this has been very good.

1:02:27 Speaker 0: I really appreciate your time. Speaker 0: I think you said you, you're, you said something about you're about to Speaker 0: go, swing some golf clubs. Speaker 0: Is that right? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: It's a nice day today. Speaker 2: I'm gonna hit the range real quick, and then Awesome. Speaker 2: My youngest daughter has a math bowl contest, Speaker 2: at our local middle school, in a few hours. Speaker 2: So that's Love it. Speaker 2: That's my plans today, and that's what I look forward to is just getting Speaker 2: to enjoy those things. Speaker 2: Because I have those freedoms now. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: Now you mentioned your your podcast and your monthly, webinar Speaker 0: show. Speaker 0: What is there anything anything else you wanna, put out there as far as Speaker 0: how the listener can get get a hold of you? Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: I I appreciate that opportunity to to plug in. Speaker 2: So once again, we're with American Note Buyers.

1:03:10 Speaker 2: We have a website called a n b funds dot com. Speaker 2: We have a podcast that's called Be The Bank. Speaker 2: You can look you can subscribe to any podcast directory. Speaker 2: We have a YouTube channel for American note buyers. Speaker 2: You can look us up and see tons of videos. Speaker 2: And so those are the three things that we have out there. Speaker 2: So if you wanna communicate with us, go to our website a and b Speaker 2: funds dot com, and we have a contest us page, and you can just Speaker 2: kinda look at some of our content there. Speaker 2: But if you wanna get some free stuff out of it, listen to our Speaker 2: podcast, download it, and then also watch some of our YouTube videos. Speaker 2: We have a ton of content out there just, you know, like I'm sure Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: You and Chris do as well. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: And then, like I said, I've for the listener out there, I've gotten to Speaker 0: know Justin and Richard better over the last year or two, and I highly Speaker 0: recommend you check out their content.

1:03:54 Speaker 0: They do they know what they're doing. Speaker 0: They put out a lot of good stuff. Speaker 0: So thanks again, Justin. Speaker 0: And to the listener, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, Speaker 0: and that is your time. Speaker 0: Thanks, everyone. Speaker 0: Take care. Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. Speaker 1: We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice Speaker 1: to elevate your real estate journey. Speaker 1: For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w Speaker 1: dot adversity to abundance dot com. Speaker 1: If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could Speaker 1: also benefit from our conversation. Speaker 1: Together, let's turn adversity into abundance.

1:04:36 Speaker 1: Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. Speaker 0: Alright. Speaker 0: Here's the deal. Speaker 0: You work hard for your money. Speaker 0: Isn't it about time you put your money to work for you? Speaker 0: If you are an accredited investor, check out labrador lending dot com. Speaker 0: Our integrity income fund provides monthly cash flow from an investment Speaker 0: backed by hard physical real estate.

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1:06:01 Speaker 0: Check it out today. Speaker 0: Labrador lending dot com.