Episode Rerun: From Women's Shelters and $700k in Debt to an 8 Figure Net Worth with REI Mom Anna Kelley

0:00 Speaker 0: This episode is awesome. Speaker 0: You're gonna love it. Speaker 0: We interview Anna Kelly. Speaker 0: We have a conversation with her. Speaker 0: She's known as the REI mom. Speaker 0: She she can be, you can learn more about her at REI mom dot Speaker 0: com. Speaker 0: But Anna went through grew up in poverty and dealt Speaker 0: with abusive situations within her family. Speaker 0: And however, Speaker 0: she harnessed all that adversity and navigated that really well Speaker 0: and latched on to hope and hard work and grit Speaker 0: and sacrifice. Speaker 0: And today, she has an eight figure net worth.

0:42 Speaker 0: She's a huge multifamily syndicator. Speaker 0: She has a lot going on in the real estate space. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: the ten year journey that we really talk about from where they Speaker 0: she and her family were kind of at rock bottom, you know, Speaker 0: within as far as their own personal financial situation. Speaker 0: And then within ten years, she really exploded, Speaker 0: in the real estate space, and she was able to work a full time Speaker 0: job, be a wife and mother, be a real estate syndicator and Speaker 0: investor, and now she's an author, speaker, and a mentor. Speaker 0: And to just see the the although there were a ton of ups and Speaker 0: downs that that Anna went through, to see the growth and the success and Speaker 0: and the fruits of her labor, Speaker 0: it's just Speaker 0: it's thoroughly inspiring.

1:31 Speaker 0: And she's been able to, you know, work hard at the at the the Speaker 0: tasks that's in front of her and approach the day to day with, like Speaker 0: I said, grit and hard work, but also kind of step back and see Speaker 0: the big picture. Speaker 0: And now she's, one of the more influential real estate investors Speaker 0: out there. Speaker 0: So we're very honored to have had Anna on the show. Speaker 0: You're gonna love this. Speaker 0: She drops a ton of knowledge and Speaker 0: four or five excellent book recommendations toward the end, which is great. Speaker 0: So Speaker 0: buckle up. Speaker 0: You're gonna love this one. Speaker 1: From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and Speaker 1: seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for Speaker 1: active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the Speaker 1: confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate.

2:20 Speaker 1: With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches Speaker 1: and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and Speaker 1: multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a Speaker 1: wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Speaker 1: Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders Speaker 1: and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners Speaker 1: will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges Speaker 1: and build lasting financial success. Speaker 1: Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity Speaker 1: to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities Speaker 1: and achieving financial freedom.

3:10 Speaker 0: Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. Speaker 0: I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to be joined by Speaker 0: a special guest, Anna Kelly, the REI mom. Speaker 0: Anna, how are you doing today? Speaker 2: I'm doing great. Speaker 2: It's so good to be here with you. Speaker 0: Thanks for joining us. Speaker 0: I know you are got a lot of things going on, and so I Speaker 0: I appreciate you taking the time. Speaker 0: And I know our audience will appreciate you taking the time to, Speaker 0: share with us your story and and, drop, some knowledge Speaker 0: bombs for us. Speaker 0: That would be fantastic. Speaker 0: So for our audience, Anna, who is not familiar anyone not familiar Speaker 0: with you, what are you up to today?

3:50 Speaker 0: And and, give us a little bit of context, from the for from Speaker 0: the present day, if you would. Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 2: So I am primarily a multifamily syndicator, doing Speaker 2: both value add deals and new development multifamily properties Speaker 2: primarily in Texas and in Pennsylvania and the Raleigh, Speaker 2: North Carolina area. Speaker 2: I've been investing in real estate since nineteen ninety eight, got much Speaker 2: more serious about it in two thousand nine after the great Speaker 2: financial crisis, the great recession. Speaker 2: And I've done everything from fix and flips to small single houses Speaker 2: to vacation rentals. Speaker 2: I have eleven short term rentals, to small multifamilies, Speaker 2: and that's really where I grew my wealth.

4:34 Speaker 2: I replaced my six figure corporate career at AIG, about Speaker 2: four years ago and then moved into much larger syndications from Speaker 2: there. Speaker 0: Oh, that's great. Speaker 0: And our audience is, largely entrepreneurs, within Speaker 0: that, entrepreneurial, Speaker 0: you know, category. Speaker 0: There's certainly a large subset of real estate investors like myself, Speaker 0: and I was able to quit my w two last year. Speaker 0: So there's a lot to talk about. Speaker 0: A lot we can unpack there from a business, you know, an entrepreneurial Speaker 0: standpoint as well. Speaker 0: So Yes. Speaker 0: And and we'll certainly dive back into later in the show, Speaker 0: as to, to to touch on kind of market conditions and what you have Speaker 0: going on today.

5:17 Speaker 0: I look forward to that. Speaker 0: So before we get there, though, Speaker 0: we gotta talk about some adversity, unfortunately. Speaker 0: So, you know, as you know, Anna, not everything is rainbows Speaker 0: and butterflies and unicorns, and, you know, I just quit my job, and I Speaker 0: just sit my thighs on the beach. Speaker 0: So talk to us about some struggle that you've been through. Speaker 0: Pick it up where you'd like to start, but, you know, you know, and Speaker 0: and, let's dive into your backstory. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I I love that this show focuses on adversity because Speaker 2: adversity is part of the human condition, and we all experience some type of Speaker 2: diversity at different points of our lives. Speaker 2: And, ultimately, those that are successful often are not those Speaker 2: that were handed an easy life on a silver platter or wealth Speaker 2: to begin with.

6:06 Speaker 2: They're really people who have struggled and have made something of themselves Speaker 2: despite adversity. Speaker 2: So it's a really, great topic and something that I think is is Speaker 2: really important, one, to motivate people that regardless Speaker 2: of what you're going through, better is possible, and you can control Speaker 2: what that looks like into the future. Speaker 2: And two, just to show that it's not all sunshine and roses. Speaker 2: Even if we seem to have arrived, there's many things that can go wrong, Speaker 2: you know, health and relationships and, you know, bad deals, etcetera. Speaker 2: So a little bit about my backstory that I think, is is Speaker 2: important when I think about how I've overcome diversity. Speaker 2: I also did not grow up with wealth or any in any Speaker 2: knowledge of of money or how to become an entrepreneur or Speaker 2: even the thoughts of becoming an entrepreneur or real estate mogul, if you will.

6:58 Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: I grew up in section eight housing. Speaker 2: So my parents divorced when I was very young, and my mom was a Speaker 2: single mom, Had a couple of very abusive husbands, Speaker 2: and so I'm the oldest of six of us. Speaker 2: And my mom worked really hard to get out of abusive situations, Speaker 2: unfortunately, got back in. Speaker 2: And so she worked, you know, two jobs to be able to survive, and Speaker 2: that left me basically a turnkey child of a mother who Speaker 2: loved me and who worked hard and and and supported me and encouraged me Speaker 2: to, be the best at whatever I could to work on getting an education Speaker 2: and getting out of the type environment that we were in. Speaker 2: But there was a lot of sadness in my childhood and, a lot of Speaker 2: fear in my childhood.

7:44 Speaker 2: But those things are really what propelled me to become very, very driven Speaker 2: and to realize that if I wanted a different life than what I had Speaker 2: as a child, if I didn't want my children to be in an abusive Speaker 2: situation or to spend evenings in a women's shelter like I had as a Speaker 2: child, if I wanted better for myself and my family, I had to Speaker 2: be willing to do whatever it took, to succeed and Speaker 2: to get myself out of that situation. Speaker 2: So I'm thankful that I knew I had a choice and that there were Speaker 2: things I could do, but I certainly did not have an easy childhood. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And and, obviously, we're not gonna, you know, pick that apart Speaker 0: too far, but, you know, it it's, unfortunately, Speaker 0: it sounds like you've dealt with you know, we find on this show most Speaker 0: of the types of adversity or most of the examples of adversity fall into Speaker 0: primarily one of one or more of three categories, Speaker 0: health, financial, or relationship.

8:41 Speaker 0: That's been one of my observations in having done this show, for almost Speaker 0: a year now. Speaker 0: And we all deal with that on some level, challenges within Speaker 0: those three categories on some level. Speaker 0: Sounds like you've certainly dealt with at least two, of those Speaker 0: three categories, you know, the the relationship and financial. Speaker 0: And, talk to us a little bit more. Speaker 0: Just give us a little bit more context as to, you know, how things Speaker 0: were growing up for you, if you would. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I will say this. Speaker 2: My again, my mother loved us, and she was a very good mother, Speaker 2: but she just wasn't home a lot because of what she was dealing with. Speaker 2: And my parents were divorced.

9:23 Speaker 2: My father and stepmother, married a few years after my parents Speaker 2: divorced, and they, I thought, were very rich. Speaker 2: In reality, my dad was a construction worker and my stepmother was a school Speaker 2: teacher. Speaker 2: And so they were an average, you know, working class family. Speaker 2: But I did see that, you know, when there's not drugs and Speaker 2: alcohol involved, when there's a cohesive family unit, you Speaker 2: know, going to church together, really focusing on the family, that it's like Speaker 2: night and day what it's like to grow up in section eight housing, you Speaker 2: know, with a single parent that's struggling to survive. Speaker 2: And so I really had a lens of, you know, Speaker 2: worldview that allowed me to see if I want my life to look like Speaker 2: this, there are steps I'm gonna need to take to ensure that it looks Speaker 2: like this versus if I don't change, you know, certain things, Speaker 2: then this is what that would look like.

10:14 Speaker 2: And so Mhmm. Speaker 2: You know, it's one of the things that kept me from ever doing drugs Speaker 2: or or drinking excessive alcohol because I understood that that was very Speaker 2: common. Speaker 2: And some of that's because in poverty, there's not a lot of hope. Speaker 2: Children and adults don't have a lot of hope that things will get better. Speaker 2: And so, you know, they're they're self medicating in some ways emotionally, Speaker 2: and that's another thing that I I said, you know, I I can't give Speaker 2: up. Speaker 2: I remember sitting in this big tree, and it's interesting because I went back Speaker 2: to this apartment complex that I grew up in for, I think, twelve years Speaker 2: of my life. Speaker 2: I used to sit in this tree and just cry and kind of dream. Speaker 2: And I remember thinking there's no hope and then battling with myself and saying, Speaker 2: yes.

10:55 Speaker 2: There is. Speaker 2: I see what it looks like for my friends whose parents went to school, Speaker 2: who have degrees, who have a little bit more money. Speaker 2: And I know that I there is hope that I can have a life Speaker 2: like that in the future. Speaker 2: And so I think that's really important and something innate in me, Speaker 2: I think, even from a very young age said, I can Speaker 2: change what my future looks like, but that means I have to be very Speaker 2: determined and very focused, and every decision I make can either Speaker 2: lead to more abundance or more, challenges Speaker 2: in life. Speaker 2: So I I think that's kind of a theme of my life from the Speaker 2: point of, you know, middle school trying to be the best, you Speaker 2: know, flute player that I could or make straight a's, trying to get a Speaker 2: scholarship.

11:40 Speaker 2: When I went to to school, I graduated high school early, and I went Speaker 2: to school year round while I worked full time year round and graduated Speaker 2: early from college. Speaker 2: I was just very driven and determined that I'm going to Speaker 2: work harder than my friends. Speaker 2: I'm gonna study harder than my friends. Speaker 2: I'm going to, you know, succeed and get this degree. Speaker 2: And in my mind, once I graduated from from college and had a really Speaker 2: good job, all my problems would be over. Speaker 2: You know, it was naive of me, but I'm glad that the mindset at Speaker 2: least allowed me to get to that first level to say, I can be Speaker 2: independent. Speaker 2: I can have nice things, and I don't have to worry about a Speaker 2: man taking care of me quite honestly.

12:21 Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's that's great. Speaker 0: I mean, it's it's, obviously, unfortunate that you had to go through all those Speaker 0: the struggles with regard to poverty and and, being Speaker 0: involved in at least seeing abuse and and that kind of kind of thing. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: But sounds like on some level, Speaker 0: what popped into my head was the, rich dad, poor dad. Speaker 0: You it sounds like you kinda had a little bit of a glimpse into Speaker 0: both worlds, kind of the the poor world and the quote, unquote rich world. Speaker 0: And and what I'm also hearing is that Speaker 0: you realized fairly early on that, a, hope is hope is critical, Speaker 0: and, b, that you do actually have a lot of control Speaker 0: in in your life, as to how your your life ends up.

13:04 Speaker 0: And I think that's that's one thing that, you know, I made a mindset Speaker 0: shift, I don't know, seven, eight years ago, Speaker 0: where instead of and I'm just speaking personally here. Speaker 0: Instead of watching the the national news and and being absorbed Speaker 0: with international issues that I have zero control and influence Speaker 0: over, how about I start looking at who's in my network? Speaker 0: What strengths do I bring to the table? Speaker 0: And what can I absolutely influence and control? Speaker 0: Because we certainly can't there are plenty of things we can't control, but I Speaker 0: think we do have a lot more control over a lot of things, in Speaker 0: our life than we often give ourselves credit for. Speaker 0: I'll get off my Absolutely. Speaker 0: I'll get off my soapbox.

13:46 Speaker 0: But, now walk us through you you mentioned graduating from college Speaker 0: early. Speaker 0: Walk us through from that point kinda up through today, if you would. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 2: So one of the things that happened and, again, I think, you know, luck Speaker 2: people say, okay. Speaker 2: You're lucky. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: They don't understand the backstory and all the adversity to get where you are. Speaker 2: But I do believe that, you know, when you're prepared and preparation meets Speaker 2: opportunity, that's what we call as luck. Speaker 2: And so I I will say I had a roommate who had gotten a Speaker 2: job at Bank of America, and they were starting a private banking department back Speaker 2: in, I think, nineteen ninety seven or early nineteen ninety eight. Speaker 2: And they were looking for master's MBA, Speaker 2: people to come and join their private banking program to teach us to become Speaker 2: financial advisers and go through our securities, licenses and then work Speaker 2: with the top, most wealthy clients in the bank, the top ten percent Speaker 2: ultra high net worth.

14:42 Speaker 2: And my roommate said, hey. Speaker 2: My roommate doesn't have an MBA, but she worked full time. Speaker 2: She just graduated college. Speaker 2: She's been an employee of the year at her company. Speaker 2: You should really interview her. Speaker 2: And so they asked me to come interview for this position. Speaker 2: And I went in not with a, oh, I'm not qualified, but, man, if Speaker 2: I could get through what I did, I can do anything, and I'm going Speaker 2: to go in and wow them. Speaker 2: And and I did. Speaker 2: And, you know, I'm very, very thankful that they took a chance on me, Speaker 2: but they gave me a position in private banking and taught me for the Speaker 2: first time in my life about money and how wealthy people Speaker 2: continue to preserve and grow their their wealth as well as their income.

15:23 Speaker 2: And so that was a huge turning point in my life where I understood Speaker 2: discipline and determination, but you also have to understand money and Speaker 2: how it works to know that you can create a better financial Speaker 2: future than what the average American has, you know, much less, Speaker 2: poverty, which is really hard to get out of. Speaker 2: But even the average American, you know, seventy percent live check to check to Speaker 2: check no matter how much money they make. Speaker 2: And so there's there's a struggle in chasing this American dream. Speaker 2: So getting that job in private banking and working with very wealthy people Speaker 2: opened my eyes to, the kinds of choices that I could make Speaker 2: once I had money, and I learned from them about what did you do Speaker 2: to get to where you are today.

16:06 Speaker 2: And just to kind of piggyboard you know, piggyback to the next level, Speaker 2: I remember talking to one of our clients. Speaker 2: Back then, we offered a a CD. Speaker 2: It was in the eight percent range in the late nineties. Speaker 2: And Mhmm. Speaker 2: I remember this older gentleman laughing at me and saying, sweetheart, Speaker 2: you know, I make much more than that in my real estate investments. Speaker 2: And I realized two years in into private banking that I hadn't Speaker 2: taken a single course on real estate, and I knew nothing about it. Speaker 2: And I thought, well, wealthy people own real estate, and they make better returns Speaker 2: than they do here. Speaker 2: I need to at least start giving it some thought and start researching. Speaker 2: And that led me to buy my first property, which was just a condo Speaker 2: that I moved into instead of paying rent in an apartment building.

16:50 Speaker 2: And then I went to work for AIG. Speaker 2: And working for AIG, it's one of the largest financial institutions in the in Speaker 2: the world. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: I started working with products and product development, working with ultra, Speaker 2: ultra high net worth individuals, banks, and institutions, and learning how Speaker 2: do they invest their money, how do they grow wealth. Speaker 2: And that really led me to starting to decide. Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep my corporate job. Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep moving up the corporate ladder, keep making my income, but Speaker 2: we are going to strive hard to pay off all the school loans, to Speaker 2: to pay off the cars, to get out of debt, and to start really Speaker 2: investing. Speaker 2: And real estate was was one of the ways that I started investing from Speaker 2: there.

17:30 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's, I can relate to a lot of that. Speaker 0: You know? Speaker 0: And one thing I wanna just emphasize is that you didn't Speaker 0: have the whole path revealed to you beforehand. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: And you none of us do. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: But it sounds like you were able to kinda focus on the task Speaker 0: at hand and really step up with regard to schooling or your Speaker 0: or your prior employment and just doing the best job you could with what Speaker 0: you were given at that time. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 0: And then opportunity presented itself, and then you made the most of Speaker 0: that as well. Speaker 0: So, you know, for people for the listener out there who Speaker 0: they don't maybe see the opportunity right now, they haven't been presented that opportunity, Speaker 0: I I would just encourage people that just do the best you can right Speaker 0: now with what you're working on.

18:17 Speaker 0: You know, it's not to say you shouldn't analyze things or strategize or plan, Speaker 0: but, ultimately, you know, it we're given kind of smaller Speaker 0: responsibilities initially to work through and work, you know, work Speaker 0: with and and, produce in that capacity, and Speaker 0: then opportunity presents itself. Speaker 0: And it sounds like you, made the most of that, and then you were Speaker 0: also able to learn from, you know, these high net worth individuals. Speaker 0: Hey. Speaker 0: What are they doing? Speaker 0: In you know? Speaker 0: And and I'm sure you've reinvented the wheel on some level, but if Speaker 0: if this is working for this person, let me copy what they're doing and Speaker 0: see kind of what you know, pull out lessons learned, from them. Speaker 0: And, again, I'm putting putting words in your mouth, but Yeah.

19:00 Speaker 0: I know for me, that's what I do. Speaker 0: It's like, why this is working for someone else. Speaker 0: I can follow what what they're doing on some level and kinda make Speaker 2: it Absolutely. Speaker 0: Fit my, circumstances and go from there. Speaker 2: For sure. Speaker 2: And I think, you know, one of the things that just it's really important Speaker 2: what you just said is is doing the best you know how to do. Speaker 2: You know, you're not gonna have it all figured out. Speaker 2: And I'll say that because of my background, I'm very much a planner. Speaker 2: Like, this is my next goal. Speaker 2: This is how I'm going to achieve it. Speaker 2: I'm gonna drive to to reach those goals. Speaker 2: And so I do have that. Speaker 2: But what I realize is you can make a lot of plans and you Speaker 2: can get really good at something, but then there's other things in life that Speaker 2: can completely derail that. Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that what you've done or what you've learned is for Speaker 2: not, but they become building blocks and lessons for you to say, okay.

19:46 Speaker 2: I've got this piece. Speaker 2: Now this thing's going wrong. Speaker 2: Now let me really focus on learning and growing in the next area and Speaker 2: just keep doing the next right thing. Speaker 2: And so, you know, an example of that is is after a few years Speaker 2: of being it was about ten years in the financial, world working Speaker 2: with the the highest net worth, individuals, banks, and Speaker 2: their brokers and advisers, I thought I had gotten really smart about Speaker 2: investments. Speaker 2: Now I wasn't wealthy yet, but I was starting to save, and most of Speaker 2: it at that time was in my four zero one k. Speaker 2: I had dabbled in real estate, but I didn't have big down payments to Speaker 2: put on things. Speaker 2: And so I just kept investing in my four zero one k. Speaker 2: And I have to tell you, Jamie, in two thousand nine, I was completely Speaker 2: blindsided and devastated by the great recession.

20:33 Speaker 2: You know, AIG being in the news that they were shutting their offices in Speaker 2: New York, and these companies I had been invested in were failing. Speaker 2: And I'll never forget, like, the the most low day other than Speaker 2: in my childhood was Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: You know, in two thousand nine, a day that we were on the news. Speaker 2: I was told we're probably gonna lose our jobs. Speaker 2: And I looked at my four zero one k, and it had lost about Speaker 2: three quarters of its value. Speaker 2: And that was all that we owned. Speaker 2: And the same week, I found out I was pregnant with baby number three, Speaker 2: and we had just started a business in two thousand seven. Speaker 2: So we, you know, we talk about these building blocks. Speaker 2: I went from being an employee and having that mindset to I wanna be Speaker 2: home with my kids, and I wanna grow wealth.

21:15 Speaker 2: So my husband needs to become an entrepreneur, and he needs to start his Speaker 2: own business and work for himself. Speaker 2: So we moved my whole family across the country and started a job with Speaker 2: a lot of debt in two thousand seven. Speaker 2: So we had paid off all this debt early, a personal debt, but I Speaker 2: had been convinced that we're at the top we're at a great economy. Speaker 2: It's only gonna get better. Speaker 2: You gotta go into business debt, and it's different than personal debt. Speaker 2: And so we we made that mistake. Speaker 2: We learned from no personal debt, but we didn't learn about no business debt Speaker 2: or starting a business when we understood nothing about economic cycles and Speaker 2: the fact that we were heading in a downward recession. Speaker 2: There were warning signs, but we didn't know anything about it.

21:55 Speaker 2: So for a while, I beat myself up, you know, for a couple months Speaker 2: in two thousand nine going, how did I miss this? Speaker 2: How did we miss this? Speaker 2: I tried to do all the right things, and yet here we are wiped Speaker 2: out about seven hundred thousand dollars in business start up debt Speaker 2: plus the building, no four zero one k, pregnant with a third baby, Speaker 2: and AIG was our only income. Speaker 2: And it was a devastating few months that I had that decision again. Speaker 2: Like, am I gonna learn from these things? Speaker 2: Be thankful that I made the best decisions that I knew at the time, Speaker 2: but say now that there's adversity, I'm either gonna give up or I'm gonna Speaker 2: say I have hope. Speaker 2: And once again, I'm gonna figure out how to make the next best decision Speaker 2: until I climb out of the debt and build up, you know, the the Speaker 2: retirement again, etcetera, etcetera.

22:42 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's, that's a lot to to deal with for sure. Speaker 0: I can't even imagine. Speaker 0: I mean and, you know, it's easy to say, but, Speaker 0: no one saw it coming really on the the level that it that it Speaker 0: did happen. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And so you weren't alone in that sense. Speaker 0: You know, I I don't think anyone fully predicted the the crash that occurred. Speaker 0: But, Speaker 0: so how did what lessons did you learn? Speaker 0: I mean, you you referred to no business debt. Speaker 0: Do you is that are you just completely anti business debt, or, Speaker 0: how do you approach that? Speaker 2: You know, I think a couple of really big lessons learned. Speaker 2: One is that you can be really smart and really good Speaker 2: and specialized in one area.

23:24 Speaker 2: For example, being an entrepreneur in a certain type of business. Speaker 2: So my husband was a chiropractor. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: He could be the best chiropractor that he could be. Speaker 2: I could be the best real estate investor I could be. Speaker 2: But if I didn't understand the economic factors that could impact Speaker 2: me, even if I tried to make all the right decisions at the same Speaker 2: time, then I may make poor decisions about the timing of when I start Speaker 2: a business, when I take on that debt, what type of debt, and how Speaker 2: much I take on, for example. Speaker 2: So if I had watched the economy, even though we were blindsided Speaker 2: and major major financial institutions were kind of blindsided, there Speaker 2: were warning signs since too early two thousand six, and there were people Speaker 2: writing articles saying, there's a housing crisis gonna happen.

24:08 Speaker 2: There's there's this crisis gonna happen. Speaker 2: There's too much derivatives and debt and risk and, you know, in these financial Speaker 2: institutions. Speaker 2: But I wasn't reading any of that. Speaker 2: I didn't think economics really mattered. Speaker 2: I thought I had more control than I really did. Speaker 2: So I learned to become a student of the economy, understand real estate cycles Speaker 2: because I'm now all in real estate, and understand economic cycles Speaker 2: at least to the point that I watch the warning signs to say, are Speaker 2: we closer to the peak, or are there signs that we might be in Speaker 2: a declining economy or in hitting a recession? Speaker 2: So that was the first thing. Speaker 2: The second thing was that that debt. Speaker 2: Generally speaking, I am opposed personally to any debt Speaker 2: unless it's very, very, very stable, low leverage, Speaker 2: and able to be covered by the income that comes in.

24:54 Speaker 2: So real estate debt, I'm very comfortable with. Speaker 2: I have tens of millions of dollars in real estate debt, literally. Speaker 2: But it's debt that for the most part is fixed fixed for Speaker 2: a long period of time and has is providing housing in areas Speaker 2: that have significant housing demand, very low housing Speaker 2: supply, really great jobs, great schools, and Speaker 2: low crime. Speaker 2: Those are kind of my check mark that if it doesn't have that quality Speaker 2: of asset, I don't wanna put a lot of debt on it. Speaker 2: The quality of the asset and the location of the asset in very financially Speaker 2: strong areas makes a big difference as to the level of risk taking on Speaker 2: that debt has.

25:34 Speaker 2: And then the third thing, and then I'll turn it back over to you, Speaker 2: that I really learned was, again, just a reminder that we are Speaker 2: we have a choice in our life of the kind of life that we Speaker 2: wanna create. Speaker 2: And I determined that, despite lots of no's, right, I wanted Speaker 2: to to own more real estate. Speaker 2: I realized my husband's job, his his entrepreneurship business wasn't Speaker 2: gonna save us. Speaker 2: I couldn't depend on even one of the largest employers in the world for Speaker 2: my job security or our family's financial security or my retirement Speaker 2: accounts. Speaker 2: What everybody was still doing was paying me rent despite not Speaker 2: despite the economy. Speaker 2: So I realized I need to take more control and build my Speaker 2: income as well as my future on things that I had more control Speaker 2: of.

26:20 Speaker 2: And so I moved really completely to real estate from that point on Speaker 2: and made the decision that every decision every day, I'm gonna not take Speaker 2: no for an answer. Speaker 2: Lenders weren't lending. Speaker 2: Properties were there, but I couldn't get financing. Speaker 2: Not to take no and to continue to push and push and get creative Speaker 2: and find other ways to buy property, for example, Speaker 2: so that I could continue to to create the life of my dreams, Speaker 2: one step at a time, one action at a time no matter how long Speaker 2: it took. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: It's fantastic. Speaker 0: I mean, you it's just very well articulated the the three lessons that you Speaker 0: learned from from all of that financial hardship, and, I just Speaker 0: love it's a central theme for our show here is just taking ownership, Speaker 0: not continuing to have a victim mentality.

27:08 Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: We we we are all victims in some sense, right, of certain circumstances Speaker 0: and things, but it it doesn't get you very far to Speaker 0: to to to stay there, mentally. Speaker 0: So I love that mindset shift of taking action, Speaker 0: But also, as you as you emphasize, not just one step. Speaker 0: It is one step at a time, but it does sound like you also Speaker 0: kind of were able to take a wider view of things as well and Speaker 0: say, how does the market play into all of this? Speaker 0: You know, and and kinda be more be strategic about it, Speaker 0: but then able to kinda zoom back in and focus on the day to Speaker 0: day. Speaker 0: So it that, I've heard this referred to as, like, a rubber band in Speaker 0: marketing where you kind of you you blast out to a bigger bigger, Speaker 0: audience, if you will, and then you zoom back in.

27:59 Speaker 0: And and it sounds like you've been able to kinda navigate that from a Speaker 0: planning and and, action, Speaker 0: you know, point of view, if you will. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I think in hindsight, it seems more that way than it probably was Speaker 2: in my mindset at the time. Speaker 2: At the time, it was like, what happened? Speaker 2: What can I learn from this? Speaker 2: It was really initially like fight or flight. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: Like, okay. Speaker 2: I've lost almost all my four zero one k. Speaker 2: Here's an example, of making just a good, like, nuanced Speaker 2: micro decision. Speaker 2: Lost most of my four zero one k. Speaker 2: Companies are still going under. Speaker 2: I need to pull it out. Speaker 2: I know as a financial adviser, we're told never ever ever take out your Speaker 2: four zero one k.

28:41 Speaker 2: I said, if I lose my job, I get a severance package. Speaker 2: I may have to pay this back, but I took a four zero one Speaker 2: k loan. Speaker 2: And I saw a building for sale across the street, a four unit, and Speaker 2: it would bring in about twelve hundred dollars a month after all expenses. Speaker 2: And I thought I'm having a baby in a few months. Speaker 2: I could lose my job. Speaker 2: But if I have another twelve hundred dollars a month, that'll pay for formula. Speaker 2: If I can't nurse, it'll pay for, you know, for food, Speaker 2: etcetera, to put on the table, and I knew that at least we would Speaker 2: be okay. Speaker 2: Like, my mortgage was covered by my tenants. Speaker 2: I lived in a four unit, which was another good decision I made the Speaker 2: year before Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: To just live below my means. Speaker 2: So we had tenants paying. Speaker 2: We bought that building, and I thought, maybe in the future, I'll regret that Speaker 2: I took out the money.

29:24 Speaker 2: But right now, here's one thing I can control. Speaker 2: I can buy that building, have a thousand dollars more a month, and we'll Speaker 2: be okay today. Speaker 2: So it was very micro decisions like that. Speaker 2: Like, just make the best decision I can. Speaker 2: And then as I started really studying the economy and as banks kept saying Speaker 2: no, I'm like, why are they saying no? Speaker 2: I have a great job. Speaker 2: I have great credit. Speaker 2: AIG was in the news every day that they were laying people off, and Speaker 2: real estate was crashing. Speaker 2: So, no, I wasn't a good risk to these lenders. Speaker 2: But I thought, what is what is happening, and will it change? Speaker 2: And when I started studying the markets, I learned about economic cycles that Speaker 2: the most opportunity is at the bottom when everyone's afraid.

30:05 Speaker 2: So that did kinda open my eyes to go, wait a second. Speaker 2: If this is the bottom and I have more opportunity and there's tons of Speaker 2: properties out here like I've never seen before, I just have to figure out Speaker 2: how to get them financed and how to buy them when I have no Speaker 2: money. Speaker 2: So that became the macro picture was, I'm not gonna say no. Speaker 2: There are ways that investors are still doing deals without their own money. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: That's what we were sold in late night, infomercials about no Speaker 2: money down deals. Speaker 2: Now I need to figure out how can I buy properties with no money Speaker 2: because I knew if I could buy a bunch at the bottom when there's Speaker 2: no competition, that over time, those properties would go back up in Speaker 2: value, create me more cash flow?

30:45 Speaker 2: And so at that point, I started to think a little more, you know, Speaker 2: of the big picture that I just gotta make one decision every day, day Speaker 2: by day, one more property, one more property, get as much as I can, Speaker 2: however long it takes. Speaker 2: And from then on, I've had a very macro perspective of, Speaker 2: where is the market and how should that impact what I do, what I Speaker 2: buy, when I sell, etcetera. Speaker 0: Well, it makes sense. Speaker 0: You've just gotten more sophisticated in your your investing approach. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: But I will say I thought Brandon Turner and bigger pockets created, house hacking. Speaker 0: So there's, you know, there's no way you could have been doing that back Speaker 0: then now. Speaker 0: I'm kidding. Speaker 0: You don't Speaker 2: have to respond Speaker 0: to that one.

31:26 Speaker 0: But, no. Speaker 0: It is a very powerful way to go for sure if someone's in that Speaker 0: position, you know, to to live in a four unit, Speaker 0: for example, and collect rent from three sets of tenants Speaker 0: and have them pay your mortgage. Speaker 0: So that that's, that's really smart. Speaker 0: So kind of Speaker 2: if you extremely powerful. Speaker 2: That was another lesson. Speaker 2: You know, I I knew that in order to expand my means in the Speaker 2: future and, really, at that time, all I wanted, Jamie, was to be home Speaker 2: with my kids. Speaker 2: I'm like, if I can just get my husband's business up where it makes Speaker 2: what I make, I'll be home. Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking about wealth. Speaker 2: I was just thinking I wanna be home with my kids, have enough income. Speaker 2: And so, you know, I made that decision that in order for me to Speaker 2: move across the country and take on the risk of a new business, which Speaker 2: we knew ninety five percent of businesses fail in the first five years or Speaker 2: so, that we need to downsize our life and not turn around and buy Speaker 2: another big house.

32:18 Speaker 2: So we learned that, and so we we lived below our means. Speaker 2: And to this day, if we hadn't lived below our means and house hacking Speaker 2: was a way for us to do that, we never would have had the Speaker 2: extra money to to start investing again and to even work Speaker 2: toward expanding our means. Speaker 2: And because we've always had that mindset of let's live below Speaker 2: our means while we work to expand our means, both of those things have Speaker 2: to happen at the same time if you really wanna change your financial future Speaker 2: and really wanna grow wealth. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: That's a very, very good point because it's really easy for us to Speaker 0: gloss over that point as far as the the personal sacrifice that it requires Speaker 0: to tighten your your belts and tighten your budget at that point.

33:00 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Because you you didn't necessarily need to maybe, but for Speaker 0: your future, you needed to. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So compare and contrast, if you would, kind of that low point, Speaker 0: versus today. Speaker 0: What do things look like for you today? Speaker 2: You know, Jamie, I I pinch myself. Speaker 2: I truly, truly am am extremely blessed, and Speaker 2: I believe that. Speaker 2: You know? Speaker 2: I I believe, that that God has blessed us and and opened up Speaker 2: opportunity At the same time that I I recognize that I made some Speaker 2: really good decisions, thankfully, out of the really poor Speaker 2: decisions. Speaker 2: But in, you know, from two thousand nine until, twenty eighteen, Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, actually, is when I actually retired from AIG.

33:44 Speaker 2: I didn't lose my job during that ten year period, which was shocking because Speaker 2: we kept saying we were going to. Speaker 2: And so I had a really good, position that was not easy to replace. Speaker 2: But, essentially, for ten years, we lived below our means. Speaker 2: We did not buy a house for years. Speaker 2: We rent after we house hacked, we ended up with four children. Speaker 2: So we ended up renting a house for several years while we bought other Speaker 2: small properties with the money instead of a down payment on a home. Speaker 2: But that ten years of significant sacrifice where we did you know, Speaker 2: everything we made in our real estate investments, we put back Speaker 2: into buying more. Speaker 2: We didn't live on any of it. Speaker 2: And so we lived below our means for ten years. Speaker 2: And then four years ago when I retired from AIG, I had enough cash Speaker 2: flow consistent in our rentals.

34:29 Speaker 2: At that point, I built about a hundred units of my own in that Speaker 2: ten year period, that seemed to take forever. Speaker 2: It was seventy, eighty hours a week of sacrifice. Speaker 2: And then I started doing joint ventures of larger apartment buildings before I Speaker 2: actually left AIG four years ago and then syndication. Speaker 2: So, you know, now I have an eight figure net worth. Speaker 2: I've I've done a couple thousand dollars in multifamily real estate. Speaker 2: Myself and two partners own another two hundred and fifty units, Speaker 2: and then we do syndications of, you know, several thousand units at this point. Speaker 2: So it's been it's night and day, the position that I'm in today, Speaker 2: where, you know, my husband's now retired from his chiropractic, Speaker 2: business.

35:11 Speaker 2: I'm retired from AIG. Speaker 2: I still work, but, you know, for me, instead of seventy, eighty hour weeks Speaker 2: for a decade, now I work because I want to, because I get to Speaker 2: build a bigger legacy and help investors and things of that nature, but I Speaker 2: work significantly less hours than I ever have, probably thirty to thirty Speaker 2: five hours a week. Speaker 2: But I'm blessed that because we started this journey and didn't give up ten Speaker 2: years ago, that if I never did another deal a day in our Speaker 2: lives, we would be set for the rest of our lives because of of Speaker 2: what we built and the sacrifices we made for a decade. Speaker 0: That's fantastic. Speaker 0: That's congrats. Speaker 0: I mean, that's phenomenal. Speaker 0: Thank you. Speaker 0: And, you know, it's Speaker 0: it's so easy to to look at someone's success and say, well, they, you Speaker 0: know, must be nice or, they're an overnight success.

35:58 Speaker 0: And if you, you know, it was a long journey to get where you Speaker 0: are. Speaker 0: I know it was. Speaker 0: And if if you look back on where you were in your childhood, it Speaker 0: certainly was not a up into the right straight line to success or Speaker 0: ton of ups and downs and a lot of sacrifice for sure. Speaker 0: But it's just fantastic. Speaker 0: I mean, to see that, you know, for the listener out there that it Speaker 0: is possible. Speaker 0: You know, they they may not end up exactly how how you are, you Speaker 0: know, how your your whatever your lifestyle is today, but, but Speaker 0: they absolutely, if you have a long term view, Speaker 0: and you're willing to sacrifice, put in the work, you absolutely can get from Speaker 0: adversity to abundance.

36:40 Speaker 2: And Absolutely. Speaker 0: I don't pretend on this show that Anna Kelly has no more problems, Speaker 0: and, you know, we know that we all still have problems. Speaker 0: But Yes. Speaker 0: It's amazing the growth that you've you've experienced through your through Speaker 0: your life. Speaker 0: So just kudos to you. Speaker 0: It's fantastic. Speaker 2: Thank you. Speaker 2: Thank you. Speaker 2: One thing I'll just throw out there too. Speaker 2: I I'm I'm really a firm believer being able to look back on my Speaker 2: life, and I think you first reached out to me because of a book Speaker 2: that I wrote where we kinda talked about, you know, that that journey to Speaker 2: abundance from that adversity. Speaker 2: But I've really learned to look at every challenge in life as not happening Speaker 2: to me, but happening for me. Speaker 2: Because when we go through adversity, when we go through challenges, it forces Speaker 2: us us to rise up and not accept complacency in the Speaker 2: status quo or victim mentality.

37:28 Speaker 2: We have to say, okay. Speaker 2: This is a challenge. Speaker 2: How am I going to use this challenge and see it as a blessing Speaker 2: and an opportunity that's gonna set me up for that next lever level Speaker 2: of growth? Speaker 2: And if I hadn't been through all the challenges I've been through, I never Speaker 2: would have even gone down the path of real estate. Speaker 2: My life would have been easy and comfortable, and I would have thought, okay. Speaker 2: This is fine. Speaker 2: But those challenges made me think, what can I do to overcome this? Speaker 2: This is happening for me, and I can either take advantage of what's happening Speaker 2: for me or I can stop and play the victim mentality and say this Speaker 2: is happening to me. Speaker 2: I'm just not the kind of person that that good things happen to. Speaker 2: And so I think that's an important mindset shift as you go through adversity Speaker 2: and you will many times in your life.

38:12 Speaker 2: How can you use this to better you as a person to make you Speaker 2: wiser, to make you more compassionate, and then just, make good Speaker 2: decisions through every challenge as as a blessing and an opportunity rather than Speaker 2: happening to you. Speaker 0: I love it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: There's not much for me to add there. Speaker 0: That's that's fantastic. Speaker 0: I'm gonna fire off some, some questions, and, we'll we'll see where Speaker 0: see where it goes. Speaker 0: Great. Speaker 0: What's one what's one thing that people misunderstand about you? Speaker 2: I think people think that I've always been, you know, Speaker 2: really driven by money or success or a job, and, really, Speaker 2: that's not the case. Speaker 2: I was always driven by, I just wanna be okay.

38:53 Speaker 2: I wanna not ever be in a situation that if my husband died Speaker 2: or left me or was disabled, that I couldn't take care of myself and Speaker 2: my children. Speaker 2: And so it really was just about being able to take care of of Speaker 2: myself, and it led to so much more. Speaker 2: And so, you know, now I I work and I do deals not because Speaker 2: I need more money or want more money. Speaker 2: I'm really not driven by the money. Speaker 2: But what kind of impact and legacy now can I leave, Speaker 2: because I don't wanna just sit on the beach and eat bonbons every day? Speaker 2: Although that would be really enjoyable, it wouldn't really help Speaker 2: me to live up to a greater purpose to give back to this world. Speaker 2: And so today, I work and do deals because I can.

39:33 Speaker 2: I'm blessed to be able to do it, and I I see they're they're Speaker 2: a bigger purpose for the rest of my life than just, you know, doing Speaker 2: more deals or things that are gonna make me millions of dollars more. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 0: I love it. Speaker 0: It both things can be true at the same time. Speaker 0: Money can be very important, and I believe it it is. Speaker 0: Money and wealth, Speaker 0: are very important and can be used in very positive or very negative ways. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: You know, and so it's I don't like that, unfortunately, some people bury their Speaker 0: heads in the sand and they say, well, you know, money is not the Speaker 0: not the answer. Speaker 0: Well, it's pretty important to understand how money works and and it's Speaker 0: but at the end of the day, it's not the end goal. Speaker 0: It's not the end all be all. Speaker 0: So you've been able to kinda keep that in perspective.

40:17 Speaker 0: So that's great. Speaker 0: What's one of your biggest failures or something that you'd prefer Speaker 0: to maybe have a do over on? Speaker 2: You know, in that ten years that I was really working hard to be Speaker 2: able to be home with my kids, I was so laser focused on the Speaker 2: goal, that I was not going to take my foot off the gas Speaker 2: ever. Speaker 2: I filled every waking possible moment with looking for deals, renovating Speaker 2: deals, you know, becoming a better real estate investor. Speaker 2: And I did all of that for my kids. Speaker 2: I wanted to be home with my kids, but I missed out on a Speaker 2: lot of opportunities to be more fully present with my kids, to take vacations, Speaker 2: to take weekends off, to take breaks.

40:59 Speaker 2: And so, you know, I'm glad that everything worked out, but my biggest Speaker 2: regret is that I didn't just say, you know, time with them. Speaker 2: For example, my my nineteen year old who's now in college, he wants to Speaker 2: do real estate full time, but for years, he hated it. Speaker 2: He's like, I hated it. Speaker 2: We missed birthdays. Speaker 2: We missed events. Speaker 2: We never went on vacation. Speaker 2: I slept on grody apartment floors while you painted in the middle of the Speaker 2: night. Speaker 2: Like, it wasn't even though I thought, well, they're with me, I wasn't present, Speaker 2: and it wasn't a great experience for them. Speaker 0: Sure. Speaker 2: So I I wish I had a do over for that. Speaker 2: Took even if it took me another couple of years to retire. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And I can, you know, empathize it. Speaker 0: Just any whether it's in real estate or not, just being an entrepreneur is Speaker 0: it's it's very easy.

41:42 Speaker 0: No one's there to tell you to stop working. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And if Speaker 2: you work full time like you did before, you know, Speaker 0: know, I was working Speaker 2: full time and running my husband's business and doing real estate. Speaker 2: It's easy to fill up, you know, your your entire day with just Speaker 2: trying to create financial freedom. Speaker 2: And and if you're not careful, you can become a slave to the pursuit Speaker 2: of financial freedom, and that's not good either. Speaker 0: Yep. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: If you had to write another book this year, what would the topic be? Speaker 2: I'm actually working on one. Speaker 0: Well, there you go. Speaker 2: And it's really about creating life by design Speaker 2: and for a greater purpose and just the resilience to never give up Speaker 2: on creating the future that you hope for.

42:24 Speaker 0: It's fantastic. Speaker 0: Any idea when that will be will be out? Speaker 2: Hopefully, by the end of this year. Speaker 0: Awesome. Speaker 2: I've got work Speaker 0: to do. Speaker 0: It's a yeah. Speaker 0: I've never never written a book, but, I used to be in be an Speaker 0: editor, and I know there is there's a lot behind the scenes that goes Speaker 0: into that. Speaker 0: So Yes. Speaker 0: What's one thing in your business or, Speaker 0: real estate investing that you just didn't expect? Speaker 0: You know, surprise, good, bad, or or ugly. Speaker 0: Otherwise, something that's really surprised you looking back. Speaker 2: Just how incredible the opportunities are Speaker 2: out there to create wealth.

43:05 Speaker 2: Real estate really is the greatest wealth creator known to man, Speaker 2: and it has been historically. Speaker 2: And, you know, in the beginning, I was a little cynical that I could Speaker 2: do it until I had enough money saved up to retire because Speaker 2: we're told by our financial advisers and every, you know, thing that you read Speaker 2: out there that the goal is to just set a little aside all the Speaker 2: time. Speaker 2: And, eventually, you know, when you're sixty five, you can enjoy life. Speaker 2: I was really surprised that especially starting at the bottom Speaker 2: at how quickly you really can create wealth even when you don't have a Speaker 2: lot of money. Speaker 2: It's not easy to do so. Speaker 2: It's hard work. Speaker 2: It takes a significant amount of time, but it is possible.

43:46 Speaker 2: And I was really surprised by that because at first, I just dabbled in Speaker 2: real estate for years. Speaker 2: I flipped a house thinking I would make a bunch of money because HGTV Speaker 2: told me I could. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: And it didn't work out so easily or the market crashed, and it didn't Speaker 2: work out so easily. Speaker 2: So although it's not easy or get rich quick, real estate, Speaker 2: when I look back and say, wow. Speaker 2: I was able to to go from negative net worth to eight figures in Speaker 2: a decade. Speaker 2: I'm really still surprised when I look back that, wow. Speaker 2: I can't believe I was actually able to achieve that. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: That's really good. Speaker 0: So what, what's one thing that you're working on right now? Speaker 0: What's what's a challenge you're facing in your in your business right now? Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really good question.

44:27 Speaker 2: You know, in this market, we're back to very similar conditions in Speaker 2: terms of the credit and lending markets as we were post two thousand nine. Speaker 2: So because there's rapid volatility and changes in the Fed's Speaker 2: monetary policy and, basically, interest rates, and there's Speaker 2: questions about how long it's gonna last. Speaker 2: When will the Fed pivot? Speaker 2: Will we have a deep recession? Speaker 2: Will we have mass inflation? Speaker 2: Banks are extremely nervous. Speaker 2: And so what's that what that's doing is even if you're extremely creditworthy, Speaker 2: have lots of assets and net worth and experience, they're offering Speaker 2: very low loan to value loans today compared to where they were, you know, Speaker 2: a year ago and really compared to where they've been since about two thousand Speaker 2: twelve.

45:10 Speaker 2: So, you know, we are post, decade of easy monetary Speaker 2: policy in an upward, upwardly mobile economy. Speaker 2: And so, you know, we've had big apartment deals, both Speaker 2: existing value add and development where lenders are issuing term sheets Speaker 2: saying, yes. Speaker 2: We can do seventy five percent LTV, and they call you back a week Speaker 2: later and say, oh my goodness. Speaker 2: Our board says pencils down. Speaker 2: No more loans. Speaker 2: Or we can only lend you forty five percent or fifty five percent. Speaker 2: Despite the strength of us, despite the strength of the asset and and the Speaker 2: location, the market really is really difficult to Speaker 2: finance deals right now. Speaker 2: And so that's a challenge.

45:50 Speaker 2: Sure. Speaker 0: And it's a lot a lot bigger challenge than, you know, when you were Speaker 0: buying your first, you know, single family rental. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: You know? Speaker 0: Because you there are a lot more moving parts and, partners and Speaker 0: the whole equity stack and all that. Speaker 0: And there's a lot going on there. Speaker 0: So And Speaker 2: it it forces you again to get creative and say, okay. Speaker 2: There's lots of money out there. Speaker 2: And how do we structure a deal in a way that's gonna make the Speaker 2: lender happy, private equity partners happy, private investors happy, Speaker 2: and still generate good risk adjusted returns. Speaker 2: So it forces us to always up our game when we have new challenges Speaker 2: for sure. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: You mentioned the three three markets that you're focused on. Speaker 0: Is there, can you speak to that a a little bit?

46:32 Speaker 0: Why why those three markets? Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 2: So one of the things that I've I've really learned over time is if Speaker 2: you want a dependable business plan, you want dependable finances, Speaker 2: You need to invest where the income is dependable. Speaker 2: And the way that you do that is you make sure that you're in Speaker 2: markets where jobs are plentiful, that all the people that are living Speaker 2: in your apartment complexes, for example, or your single family home, If they lost Speaker 2: a job tomorrow, they could find another job in their backyard without having to Speaker 2: move or without having to go on assistance and not be able to pay Speaker 2: you. Speaker 2: So while I'm very philanthropic in terms of what I do with my money, Speaker 2: I've learned to not cater to those that don't have enough money Speaker 2: that are living check to check that sixty percent of them are not gonna Speaker 2: be able to pay rent.

47:17 Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: I've also lived through the pandemic, which we didn't even talk about with a Speaker 2: couple thousand units having to figure out how do we deal with paying Speaker 2: bills and contractors and mortgages if our tenants can't pay. Speaker 2: So having gone through that, it's really important in terms of, you know, where Speaker 2: you buy your investments that you're in cities that are pro growth, pro Speaker 2: pro jobs, low taxes, good cost of living, Speaker 2: great schools, low crime. Speaker 2: All of those factors are really, really important. Speaker 2: And primarily where we find that, I might be partial because I'm a Texan, Speaker 2: but is in in Texas. Speaker 2: And so I'm investing heavily in the Dallas Fort Worth market, Speaker 2: Houston, Texas suburbs, some suburbs of Austin, but Speaker 2: those are markets that are very pro growth and pro business and bring a Speaker 2: ton of people.

48:04 Speaker 2: So people are leaving states like California and New York and New Jersey Speaker 2: and Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, and they're moving to Texas and Speaker 2: Florida and Georgia. Speaker 2: Raleigh, North Carolina's a lot like Austin without Speaker 2: all the homelessness, and it's still politically pretty conservative and landlord Speaker 2: friendly. Speaker 2: But there's a ton of high-tech, high paying jobs. Speaker 2: It's a financial hub, and there's not enough, Speaker 2: supply for all the people that are moving there. Speaker 2: And that's a big factor is supply and demand. Speaker 2: If you're investing in great areas, but it's been overbuilt and there's not a Speaker 2: lot of demand or population growth, then you're gonna struggle with rents into a Speaker 2: recession just like you would if you're, you know, in a class c, c Speaker 2: minus type neighborhood.

48:48 Speaker 2: So those are the reasons that I invest in, you know, Raleigh, North Carolina, Speaker 2: and Texas primarily. Speaker 2: I've also owned a couple complexes in Atlanta, Georgia, and it has really strong Speaker 2: fundamentals as well. Speaker 0: Got it. Speaker 0: That's a very thorough answer. Speaker 0: It's very good. Speaker 0: Before we, talk about how our listeners can reach out to you, what's Speaker 0: a what's a book or two besides your own that you could recommend for Speaker 0: my audience? Speaker 2: Okay. Speaker 2: So when it comes to economics, because that was one of my big lessons, Speaker 2: I would really follow the principles for a changing Speaker 2: world order by Ray Dalio. Speaker 2: He's someone who thinks very big picture and and helps understand, Speaker 2: what kind of shifts are happening in the world and in demographics, in Speaker 2: order to help you understand how those things could impact your investing.

49:38 Speaker 2: Another one is, The End of the World is Just the Beginning Speaker 2: by Zahn. Speaker 2: It's a newer book that also really talks a lot about, demographic shifts. Speaker 2: Another book two others that I'll recommend. Speaker 2: One is more of a personal book, and it's called Life and Air. Speaker 2: And it really talks about creating your life by design, living the life that Speaker 2: you want today, not having to wait for the future to live it. Speaker 2: Highly recommend that. Speaker 2: And then in terms of, real estate investing, if you're a multifamily Speaker 2: investor, there's a great book that's still one of my favorites. Speaker 2: It's the only book I ever read before I started this path Speaker 2: of this ten year journey to create wealth, and it was Dave Lindahl's Speaker 2: multifamily millions.

50:20 Speaker 2: And to this day, it's it's a great reference book to just show you Speaker 2: what's possible and how you can create, great wealth through Speaker 2: multifamily investing. Speaker 0: That's fantastic. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: You've, you've made this interview very easy for me. Speaker 0: It's you're very well, well spoken, and we you've offered a ton of knowledge Speaker 0: for the listener out there. Speaker 0: And, again, thank you thank you for joining us. Speaker 0: Congrats on all the success. Speaker 0: I know it's been a ton of ton of work. Speaker 0: For a listener who does wanna reach out to you, where can they find Speaker 0: you online? Speaker 2: Great. Speaker 2: So if you're an accredited investor and you're looking for passive real estate investments, Speaker 2: you can find me at greater purpose capital dot com for opportunities there.

51:01 Speaker 2: And if you're looking for a coach or a mentor, to help you through Speaker 2: various types of real estate investing, the things that I have experience with, you Speaker 2: can find me on my website at rei mom dot com and send me Speaker 2: a friend request on social media at Anna Kelly, rei mom. Speaker 0: Perfect. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: That's really what it boils down to is active and passive. Speaker 0: I found that in my own mortgage note business is, you know, Speaker 0: so that's that's another strategic move on your part for sure. Speaker 0: So to our listener out there, I highly recommend you follow Anna and reach Speaker 0: out to her if if you're either either active or passive or just wanna Speaker 0: learn more about multifamily syndications and and, Speaker 0: all the, you know, the lessons that Anna has learned through her ups and Speaker 0: downs along this journey.

51:46 Speaker 0: So, Anna, thank you so much again for joining us. Speaker 0: Really appreciate your time. Speaker 2: You're so welcome. Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. Speaker 0: And to our listener out there, we really appreciate your time, which is your Speaker 0: most valuable asset. Speaker 0: We appreciate you spending that resource with us. Speaker 0: Please do like and share. Speaker 0: Primarily share the show if you like this episode. Speaker 0: If you like this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Speaker 0: That goes a long way for us. Speaker 0: Thanks, everyone. Speaker 0: Take care. Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. Speaker 1: We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights practical advice Speaker 1: to elevate your real estate journey.

52:29 Speaker 1: For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w Speaker 1: dot adversity to abundance dot com. Speaker 1: If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could Speaker 1: also benefit from our conversation. Speaker 1: Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Speaker 1: Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.